Chris Dreyer:
Most personal injury lawyers leave money on the table, but the truth is there are five big levers you can pull to get maximum case value. First, your brand has to mean something. Second, your marketing channels can't work in silos. Third, you need airtight audits, so no detail slips through the cracks. Fourth, your team has to be aligned. And finally, you got to think in terms of compounding value. Even five grand more per case adds up to millions over time.
Ramin Montakab:
There's no magic bullet. It's like if you care, people will tell that you care, and then they're going to tell their friends and family about you.
Chris Dreyer:
Ramin Montakab, he went solo in 2020 and is already recovered over $10 million for his clients.
This is Personal Injury Mastermind powered by Rankings.io. I'm Chris Dreyer.
Ramin Montakab:
That's all there really is to it.
Chris Dreyer:
Today, he explains the five ways to maximize case value in any PI niche. For Ramin, this work is deeply personal. Let's go.
Ramin Montakab:
My son has autism. This is something I care very deeply about. Just a week or two ago, one of the things that my firm is really focusing on trying to build out is helping out the autism community, advocating for persons with autism who get injured.
Chris Dreyer:
So is this a focus for the practice you think moving forward, like kind of a niche within a niche for injury?
Ramin Montakab:
Yeah, I would say so. We're doing a lot with community outreach and letting parents know what their rights are. So many of these families are already overwhelmed with all the needs that these children have.
Chris Dreyer:
So before we get in the weeds, before we get into the tactics, what's a recent win?
Ramin Montakab:
There was a case that the mom called me, said, "A door closed. My kid's finger was in the door." Through my advocacy and through hard work, we were able to resolve the case for $350,000. And the mediator, who's a very well noted mediator, said, "I've never seen a result like this on a case."
I think the difference was, in all honesty, the first call I had with the defense attorney, I said, "If you think you're going to downplay this case because of his condition, because of his future, that's not something that's going to go well with the jury." So I think the result really spoke for itself.
Chris Dreyer:
That's incredible. That's incredible that they just didn't take you serious, and you're like, okay, whatever. That's amazing. Congrats.
Ramin Montakab:
Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
Chris Dreyer:
Tell me about the tipping point. What was the tipping point before you started your own practice?
Ramin Montakab:
I was at Goldman Sachs. I was advising billionaires, and it just wasn't fulfilling. I always liked personal injury. My first two years, I did insurance defense, and I was always inspired by these really good plaintiff's attorneys. The truth is, you get brainwashing doing insurance defense.
So when I was doing that, it's actually a pretty crazy story that I decided to start my own firm. My first year, I did do business litigation. Two months after I started my firm, COVID happened, courts were closed. So my job pretty much went away because no in-person depositions. I started a channel on, it was kind of like a live podcast thing. It was called Clubhouse. And just by complete happenchance, Arash Homampour, a very well known trial attorney here in California, I added him to the room. I just had a conversation with him with the intention of I want to get into PI. I want to learn from some of the best trial attorneys.
I started asking him questions. That resonated with people. And within a few weeks someone from Panitch's office reached out to me, and said, "Hey, we want you to interview for Panitch." Someone from Morgan and Morgan reached out to me, "Hey, we want you to interview." And I had a following of thousands of people a week just listening to these live shows.
So that's how the impetus... That's how the firm blew up essentially is Arash, one of my first cases, I did a good job on that case. That client ended up referring me four people, and just the firm started growing from there.
Chris Dreyer:
Normally, as a marketer, I'll get in on the new channel, whether it's TikTok or what have you, but I didn't get in on Clubhouse. That's amazing that you built that community, those relationships with these other attorneys to get the referrals.
What's your thoughts about marketing and just attracting leads today? I know you mentioned the community involvement, but just what else and just your overall thoughts for lead gens.
Ramin Montakab:
In 2020, I was one of the first people who was posting on Instagram, posting on social media. People were calling me the TikTok lawyer, and I was getting a lot of leads just through posting on Instagram and talking on Clubhouse. That's changed. I stopped. I had a full-time guy working with me making videos, and we were pushing out these Instagram ads and just the RRI wasn't there for us anymore.
So I think it has changed. I do feel like unless you have a very, very large bucket you're setting aside for marketing, I do think that grassroots is still the best way to go. So my social media is just basically to keep top of mind with my primary network, and they're referring me to their secondary, and third. If they hear of an accident, they think of me. So I'm really targeting those people. I'm not going for millions of people.
How referrals, SEO, reviews, and social media work together to fuel PI law firm growth
Chris Dreyer:
I've been in digital marketing for over a decade, and I can tell you this: referrals matter, but for referrals to work, you need to stay top of mind. Your touch-points need to work together to reinforce your brand. That's where social media plays its part. Pair it with websites that ranks, SEO the compounds over time, and steady stream of Google and Yelp reviews, you've got real social proof, and a brand that clients trust before they ever pick up the phone.
Ramin nailed it with his Robin Hood positioning, a brand that makes people instantly understand who he fights for, and why they should remember his name.
Ramin Montakab:
I'm a person who likes fighting for the underdog. A lot of times people think my name is Robin. It's funny when I go to events a lot of times people come up to me, "Hey, you're Robin from Instagram." They think my name is Robin because they just think it's Robin Hood.
Chris Dreyer:
It's perfect for this, because there's such a negative connotation for injury attorneys. It's like they get a bad rap, but typically they're for the victim, and they're getting them more, and they're getting them help, and you've seen it firsthand.
On the intake side, though, how do you think about converting the leads, the sales side? Is it a dedicated intake team? Is it third party? How do you approach that side?
Intake habits for PI firms that raise conversions through empathy and client trust
Ramin Montakab:
We do have a dedicated intake team at the office, and then for off hours we have a call set service. The call center, I tell them, if it's a catastrophic case, this is my cell phone. Call me. I want to speak with them. People on my team who do intakes, a lot of them come from service backgrounds. One of them works at Disneyland. Other people work in social services. So those are the type of people that have that empathy. So the first question I want you to ask is, how are you doing? I'm so sorry you went through this. I don't want to be like, when was that data loss, and how bad was your property damage? Right?
So intake at the end of the day, especially the volume that we have, which is not that high, spending the time has been a game changer for us. A lot of people say, "I've called two other firms. Just want to get a second opinion." And that empathy has really caused our conversion rates to go up.
I'd spend a lot of time, even on cases I couldn't help people. I'd say, "I'll try to get help for you." After spending time with them, say, "Hey, was the information I gave you helpful? Well, if you want to reciprocate, if you want to be helpful, if you leave me a Google review, that'd be super helpful." So even cases I wasn't taking, I was ended up getting Google reviews that really kind of helped with the GMB.
Chris Dreyer:
Yeah, I think that's super smart. I think there's just so many milestones and so many touch-points. Whether it's the initial touch-point from the prospecting or the onboarding or what have you, I think that's an amazing opportunity to get those reviews, which are so important.
Let's talk luring. You've got six locations, multiple attorneys. You handle complex PI across these six offices. What does the structure look like? How do you approach the delivery of the ops side?
Ramin Montakab:
We have two people who have backgrounds in medicine. So those people are overseeing the case managers, the intake. They're double-checking everything, making sure if we did a good job with the medical side of the intake, and then they're doing another follow-up call, usually about a month in for another medical intake. If it's a TBI, we use the Rivermead test. Getting that imaging soon to show the progression, and then doing it again in a year, see if there's any brain matter decrease over that year. Those are things we can do in PI that an insurance company would never authorize, and it's so important.
Chris Dreyer:
You actually go to your client's homes to build these emotional narratives. Why is that a non-negotiable for you?
How home visits and medical protocols uncover hidden damages and increase injury case value
Ramin Montakab:
What you learn at people's homes, there's so many little things you pick up. I see the ramps that are set up. I see the shower. They never mentioned that to me. They never mentioned all the modifications of their home. Well, guess what? Those are damages. You can get reimbursed for those that. Just being there for an hour can increase the value of the case by $100,000. So it's such a game changer, Chris.
On the autism cases, going to these people's homes, seeing how much they've changed their lives, seeing what their home looks like, and realizing 10, 20, 30, maybe $50,000. Once you're at a caseload, where that volume or that number doesn't make a difference to your firm, but when you go to their home, you realize, okay, this is enough money to make a significant material impact in their lives.
Chris Dreyer:
Let's zero in on the TBI. Brett Turnbull was on recently, and he was talking about the wearables. Talk to me about those cases because it's not often that we get someone with that expertise.
Ramin Montakab:
A physician friend of mine called me saying, "Hey, one of my friends is a physician. He was in a small collision, but I've noticed big changes in him. Is there something you can do to help him?"
I went to his house, I saw the drastic changes in his life. I asked his mom, I asked his sister, I asked his colleagues, "What are the behavioral changes you've seen? What are the changes throughout his day? What are some hobbies?" Because he wasn't able to verbalize a lot of that stuff. He was like, "No, I'm okay." His coworker, who introduced us, he told me, "This guy is now working 12 hours a day instead of eight hours a day because he can't get his work done anymore."
Once you know that that's actually happening, then you want to go in on the medicine, getting their brain MRIs, ideally twice to show the change over time. A lot of people like neuropsych testing. Typically, I don't really do anything like that until right before litigation.
Yeah, making sure you're telling them how important therapy is, and having a journal, writing down the changes that you're having, all that stuff is very important.
Chris Dreyer:
I think one of the things that I'm appreciating is just how detailed you are and how thorough and regardless of the investigation, the questions and the discovery and everything that you're talking about.
What are the systems, the checklist? Is it the Kaizen? I believe they have these circle groups for education. Talk to me about that model.
Ramin Montakab:
Yeah, we have checklists. We do case audits every single week. We have an audit meeting; any case question that they have, another attorney, myself, the case manager who's in contact with them, and the person who did the audit of the medical records who are speaking about the cases. When I tell a number of people that aren't on my team, compared to the cases, they're like, "That's crazy. You're so over-staffed. At my office, there's one case manager for every 150 cases." The reality is I'd rather overspend and make sure that we have the best team possible because that's what drives the values, and I'd rather have fewer cases with bigger results.
Why compounding value in PI can transform your law firm’s bottom line
Chris Dreyer:
When you got the staff to really dig into a case, the numbers start to move. Think about it. If you put just five grand more into every file, what would that do to your bottom line? What would that mean for your clients you serve? But it only works if you've got the right systems to back it up. Constant check-ins, regular alignment, that's where Ramin's approach comes in. Here's how he makes it work for maximum impact.
Ramin Montakab:
Our core values is not just some document that's sitting on a shelf somewhere. On Mondays, when we have a team meeting, like a pep talk, I mention, I want to commend, for example, Emma Sarah; she lived up to the core value of communication and this is what she did. So you're constantly reinforcing those behaviors up. These are our core values, and we're recognizing people who are matching up to those core values. You just ask people, "Hey, if somebody did an outstanding job this week, let me know what it was." I get a Slack message, and then I mention it.
So I do that on Monday. And on Fridays, either a training session, or a lot of times... We have a case right now. It's in litigation. It's set for trial in September. This is a case in the beginning they had called three other firms. Everyone passed on the case. We sent a demand fee litigation. They offered $7,000. Now a month out from trial, we're looking at multiple seven figures for the case.
So reinforcing what we're doing right, the good results we're getting. On Fridays, as a wrap up meeting, those are some things I'd like to mention to the team to make sure that everyone's on the same page.
Another thing is that most of my team... I only have three people that come into the office. Everyone's remote, and that's been helpful with bringing on top talent. Building a culture is difficult. So if it wasn't for the constant communication in the all-hands team meetings, I don't think we would have the culture that we do.
Chris Dreyer:
We're an entirely remote company. We've got a kudos Slack channel. Actually, I think it's significantly better when you say it to them, at least virtually on a video as opposed to just in a Slack message. The attention to detail on the intake, which lends itself to the rapport building, the really paying attention, I think, because in order to truly care about the person, you have to listen to them, and it's not just they say something, check it off, so to speak.
This has been a ton of fun. What's the plans that you have? What's the future look like?
Ramin Montakab:
Yeah, it's been a lot of growth the last four years I've been doing PI, like last year we hired 25 people. I just want to make sure everything is running absolutely smoothly. I think I want to organically grow smaller. I think my goal is to acquire a firm, a personal injury attorney who's older, who's looking to phase out, to grow like that with a team that already the culture is built in. So that's what I'm hoping for.
Chris Dreyer:
Final question. Where can our audience go to connect with you and learn more?
Ramin Montakab:
Instagram: raminhood; R-A-M-I-N-H-O-O-D. rtmlawfirm.com is my website, and if you Google; Ramin Montakab or RTM Law, you'll find me.
Chris Dreyer:
Social, SEO, reviews, every touch point; working together keeps you top of mind. Do the little things right and over and over, and the compounding effect will put you miles ahead of the competition.
I'm Chris Dreyer, this is Personal Injury Mastermind. Catch you next time. I'm out.
