Dr. Jeremy Cassius:
Part of what we have had to do at the Mental Pain and Trauma Center is educate attorneys because traditionally, with personal injury law, it's always been, Oh, go to the urgent care. Go to the chiropractor. Go to the MRI. But, it hasn't been, go to see a psychologist for help with your trauma.
Chris Dreyer:
Physical injuries have always been the focus of personal injury cases. What if you could provide more comprehensive care for your clients, improve case outcomes, and address long-term issues that might otherwise go untreated. With mental health assessments and treatment from forensic psychologists, you can. Today's guest, Dr. Jeremy Cassius will explain how.
Welcome to Personal Injury Mastermind, the show where ambitious attorneys come to learn, implement, and get results. We break down the proven tactics that separate the best firms for the rest each week. I'm your host, Chris Dreyer, founder and CEO of Rankings.io. We don't hide behind jargon or excuses. You will always know what is being done, why we're doing it, and what's coming next. We show you exactly how we're turning rankings into cases with every step of the way with top class digital marketing.
Dr. Jeremy Cassius is a trailblazer in the intersection of mental health and personal injury law. He founded the Mental Pain and Trauma Center, a nationwide organization operating in all 50 states. He serves clients and educates attorneys, reshaping how the legal community approaches personal injury cases. In today's episode, we cover how addressing psychological trauma can make your case stronger, how psychological evaluations provide concrete evidence that your mental anguish claims have been missing, and how pre-existing mental health issues can lead to complex treatment needs and potentially higher damages in personal injury cases. All right, let's get on with the show.
Dr. Jeremy Cassius:
I earned my PhD in Forensic Psychology while I started my immigration evaluation practice. I also, on the side, was doing some personal injury work because I met an attorney who came up to me and said, "Do, you guys see trauma clients?". And I said, "Well, I love working with trauma. I'd love to help you out". And he said, "Well, do you mind helping me out and not getting paid for a couple of years?". And I said, "Yeah, I do". I subsidized it, basically based on... I financed it with my evaluation business at the time, and then, over time, I got more clients, I hired some people to do more therapy work, and just expanded my business.
Then, at the time of COVID, we went virtual because everybody was at home. And that actually benefited me because I was able to go on video, do psych evaluations and therapy for just many people that had had accidents, and they didn't want to come out anyway. Most of the time, they would rather sit at home and not go to another physical therapist or chiropractor, but they'd rather sit on their computer and talk to a therapist. So, we expanded.
Chris Dreyer:
You founded the Mental Pain and Trauma Center. It's nationwide in all 50 states, so let's kind of get into that. What gaps in treatment were you seeing that led to the creation of this center, specifically?
Dr. Jeremy Cassius:
Well, it seemed like for years, personal injury lawyers were just focused on working with the physical issues that a client had. I mean, I remember my first car accident, I was 16 or 17. I got rear-ended, and my father was friends with an attorney that did general practice, but he did personal injury too. And they're like, go to the physical therapist. Go get an X-ray done, all this stuff. So, I was going to those doctors. In the meantime, I didn't know if I ever wanted to drive again. I was young, and I got pounded by what felt like a tank. The shock of it all was like, I don't know if I can ever get behind a wheel again. But, that wasn't really addressed. There was a need to address the issues of trauma. Anytime there's a physical injury, there's also some emotional issues that go along with that physical injury, and sometimes, when you're able to remove the anxiety that comes along with a physical injury, that reduces a lot of the pain that people suffer from.
I'm very interested in the connection between the pain and suffering somebody has emotionally and how that affects the physical pain as well. Part of what we have had to do at the Mental Pain and Trauma Center is educate attorneys because traditionally with personal injury law, it's always been, oh, go to the urgent care, go to the chiropractor, go to the MRI. But, it hasn't been go to see a psychologist for help with your trauma. When I first started telling attorneys I was doing this, they're like, you know, we do have mental anguish claims, but we never had evidence behind that. So, we really could use your services to help develop those mental anguish claims. We just never have known how to do it. So, a lot of what I've been doing has been just kind of educating the attorneys about developing their mental anguish claim and how they can do it.
Chris Dreyer:
Literally two weeks ago, I was in a rear-end collision. Like, just complete stop, waiting for somebody to turn, and someone hit me going like 40, 45 miles an hour. Thankfully, I wasn't injured. The other driver didn't have any injuries, but what I found myself from the mental side is I'm keyed up, really paying attention, look in my rear-view mirror, like, almost worried that they're going to hit me all at all times. So, I'm slowing down way more, and I didn't even have a major accident. So, I can only imagine what some of these individuals, like, going under someone's car or maybe having the jaws of life trying to pry open a door or something would have on them.
Dr. Jeremy Cassius:
Sure. It's a common issue that we deal with every day.
Chris Dreyer:
Can you walk us through just some of the most common types of cases that you handle?
Dr. Jeremy Cassius:
I would say the most common types of cases are car wrecks with a significant injury involved in the car wreck. Usually, it's something that takes them out of their normal life style, whatever that might be, whether it be taking them out of work, taking them out of a social situation, taking them out of family situations. We have plenty of grandparents that come in here that, you know, they want to play with their grandkids, but they just can't lift them up anymore. And that really has a major effect on their life and everything they're doing, just kind of like a domino effect. So, we try to help them get back on their feet again emotionally.
These are the things that don't show up on MRIs. They do show up on a self-report about how much their life has changed, and we try to get them back to the level they were at before they had an injury happen to them. We also deal with wrongful death cases a lot, and those, there's not really any kind of provider that their survivors can go to because they weren't injured necessarily physically. But, the grief that they're experiencing is terrible. So, they come to us for an evaluation and treatment, and it's an everlasting change they have because they've lost somebody to some kind of situation that wasn't the person's fault. And it was totally unexpected, most of the time.
Chris Dreyer:
As mental health care becomes more mainstream, the collaboration between mental health professionals and attorneys has become more accessible. Dr. Cassius works with attorneys in all stages of the case, but most of his clients are in pre-let. This partnership can strengthen cases and improve client outcomes. His expertise bridges the gap between psychological evaluation and legal strategy. As we examine this B2B relationship, we'll uncover how tailored psychological evidence can significantly bolster a personal injury case.
Dr. Jeremy Cassius:
In pre-let, they're trying to develop the case enough to have their arguments with insurance adjusters about what the needs of this client is. Percentages of going to litigation are pretty low, but when they go to litigation, that's usually we do that on a retainer versus a lien, which we'll do for pre-let.
So, the litigation cases, what they usually need is they need somebody to develop the mental anguish claim. They need an expert to come in, and talk to, and meet with a client, and do a psychological evaluation to understand all of the areas that are going to affect the person over the course of their lifetime. It's almost like a life care plan for psychology. So, what we always do is we always try to understand how much has this person lost pleasure in their life, that they're not able to enjoy the basic things that people are able to enjoy anymore? And how long is this going to last, and how much therapy and treatment are they going to need over time to really address whether it be their post-traumatic stress disorder, anxiety issues that have come from it, or depression? Is that going to last 5 years, 10 years? How long is that going to be?
So, we try to develop that argument from a psychological standpoint to understand the loss of enjoyment somebody has in life, the loss of just overall functioning and able to do the things they were able to do before as far as going to work or just paying the bills. A lot of these clients are not able to work anymore. They're not able to function like they were before. Those are the kind of arguments I think most of the attorneys are trying to get us to understand better for them.
Chris Dreyer:
I think it would be interesting... Now, obviously, we don't want to breach confidentiality, but I was just wondering if we could talk about, maybe just give us a scenario, you had an individual that this happened, and how it worked with the attorney. Maybe you could just walk us through speaking from experience.
Dr. Jeremy Cassius:
There was one case that I think about a lot when I get in the car, and I drive safer because there was a girl, she was probably 20 years old, a young lady. And she was driving, and she got T-boned. She was T-boned by a car coming very fast. Her car flipped up in the air. She landed through the windshield of another driver on the other side of the road. That lady died, and the client's car, her Jeep, landed on all four wheels, so she was okay basically. She had a few scratches here and there.
Chris Dreyer:
Wow.
Dr. Jeremy Cassius:
The driver on the other side of the road did not survive, and this is a young lady who had to live with, she took somebody else's life, and it wasn't even her fault, happened to be on the other side of the road. And she was going through all kinds of emotional issues. She dropped out of college, broke up with her boyfriend, and just lots of changes, but she really didn't know how to absolve herself of the guilt she felt of something that wasn't even her fault. And we had to work on just helping her understand the reality of the situation better because it was like she had mental blocks on even trying to cope with it.
Chris Dreyer:
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You have people that, these pre-existing injuries, right? Where someone had been hurt, and then it's like they go to trial. And it's like, oh, you hurt your neck and so-and-so. It's pre-existing. Today, there's more mental health issues in the U.S. than, I don't know, ever. How do you differentiate between maybe some pre-existing mental health issues versus the trauma side from the event? Are there scenarios like that that play into the case?
Dr. Jeremy Cassius:
All the research shows people with pre-existing trauma issues or mental health issues, even anxiety and depression, when they have another incident happen later on, it not only exacerbates the previous issues, but it makes them much harder to deal with. It's like a whole new level of therapy and coping that the person has to do to get through their next level of trauma.
We also try to rule out things as much as possible and be objective as possible, to understand the person completely and their history and understand what they're coming in there, even prior to the accident, with. There's a fine line, and we want to address the current condition, that's the most important thing, but we also need to know the history of the person to kind of address whether this current condition that they're dealing with has become worse because of something that they were dealing with earlier. We address it as an exacerbation, but also, this is going to be much harder to deal with. It's going to cost them much more money down the road because they had that under control, and now, they've spiraled back to where they were before. And it's going to be much harder to get them back to that baseline.
Chris Dreyer:
In the world of personal injury law, trauma and pain are unfortunately common. Dr. Cassius sees a silver lining this dark cloud. As he explains, these difficult circumstances often lead to people to seek mental health support they might've otherwise avoided.
Dr. Jeremy Cassius:
So, one of the things that was attractive to me about the personal injury work that I do was that this was a chance to get people in for therapy that might never go otherwise to see therapy. And especially, like what you were talking about is all the mental health trends that we're dealing with in society now. It's become more okay to see a therapist, over time, and there's just lots of stuff going on now in society that has made things difficult, I think, also for people.
And coming to talk to somebody is a good thing. Everybody needs help. I believe everybody, at some point in life, is probably going to need a therapist to talk to, for good reason. I think it's helpful to go express your feelings to somebody to get things off your chest that you might be holding in, and we become more open and communicative that way, when we're not on our cell phones and not on our computer chatting, and we're going to talk to somebody real in-person or virtually and just getting out things that are on our mind or on our chest and absolving ourselves from feelings that we've been not able to talk about for a long time. This is healing in itself.
So, to be able to offer that to clients, under a lien for personal injury settlement, is very helpful. It's a very good way to get them in to see somebody. So, that was attractive to me that I could really help people where they weren't feeling the pressure of payment right away and all that kind of stuff, and I could help them and eventually the settlement pays for what we do, whenever that comes in. Sometimes that takes a long time, as you know, probably, from the industry. But, just being able to open those doors for people who wouldn't otherwise come in to get help, I think is an important thing to do.
Chris Dreyer:
I think that's a great mission. I think it's amazing. Yeah, I'm definitely aware of the cash flow cycles of the P.I. Attorneys and those implications, but I also think the contingency side allows you to do things that are very beneficial that maybe others wouldn't want to move forward with if they had to pay on the front end, especially during these different scenarios with accidents and bills piling up.
Dr. Jeremy Cassius:
Exactly. Thank you so much, Chris, for having me on today. Your conference, by the way, PIMCon, unbelievable. Best personal injury conference I've been to yet.
Chris Dreyer:
Amazing. Thank you for saying that.
Dr. Jeremy Cassius:
And I can't even explain why. It was just, there was this, it had the it-factor that you want in a conference. I've been to a lot of conferences, and this was really, there was something about the people that came, and the energy, and the vibe there, and the education that people... I was interested in all the talks, and I'm not even a lawyer.
Chris Dreyer:
Thank you for saying that.
Dr. Jeremy Cassius:
You know, but it was very well done.
Chris Dreyer:
Thank you. Thank you. That's so amazing. Thank you for the compliment, that means the world. Thank you so much for coming on the show. I really enjoyed it.
Dr. Jeremy Cassius:
Thank you for having me.
Chris Dreyer:
Yeah, thank you so much.
There were a lot of solid insights in today's episode. Let's review the takeaways. It's time for the pinpoints.
Pinpoint one, it's not just physical, trauma an be emotional and psychological. By addressing mental health concerns, clients can receive more comprehensive care that can significantly strengthen a case. Get a forensic psychologist, like Dr. Cassius, in the early stages of a case to help recognize and address emotional distress.
Dr. Jeremy Cassius:
What we do know from research is that anytime there's a physical injury, there's also some emotional issues that go along with that physical injury, and sometimes, when you're able to remove the anxiety that comes along with the physical injury, that reduces a lot of the pain that people suffer from.
Chris Dreyer:
Pinpoint two, get the receipts. Mental anguish claims are so much stronger, when you have the evidence to back it up. With psychological evaluations, you have concrete proof of injuries that have been notoriously hard to quantify.
Dr. Jeremy Cassius:
When I first started telling attorneys I was doing this, they're like, we do have mental anguish claims, but we've never had evidence behind that, so we really could use your services to help develop those mental anguish claims. We just never have known how to do it.
Chris Dreyer:
Pinpoint three, mental trauma compounds. If your client has pre-existing mental health issues, it's likely they will need more care for longer. Partnering with an expert can help you establish the lifetime care your client will need.
Dr. Jeremy Cassius:
There's a fine line. We want to address the current condition, that's the most important thing, but we also need to know the history of the person to address whether this current condition that they're dealing with has become worse because of something that they were dealing with earlier. So, we address it as an exacerbation, but also, this is going to be much harder to deal with. It's going to cost them much more money down the road because they had that under control, and now they've spiraled back to where they were before. And it's going to be much harder to get them back to that baseline.
Chris Dreyer:
That wraps up this episode of PIM with Dr. Jeremy Cassius. You can learn more about him, grab his contact info, and the resources mentioned today in the show notes. While you're there, pick up a copy of my new book, Personal Injury Lawyer Marketing: from Good to GOAT, and if you like what you hear, help a brother out, leave me a five-star review on Apple or Spotify. All right everybody, thanks for hanging out. See you next time. I'm out.
