134. Darryl Isaacs, Isaacs & Isaacs — The Hammer: Insights from a Marketing Legend

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Kentucky-based Isaacs & Isaacs has been expertly steered by the legendary Darryl “The Hammer” Isaacs for nearly thirty years. The firm has secured over $2 Billion in compensation and boast over 400 years of combined legal experience. You may recognize him from the iconic Hammer commercials, Superbowl ads, radio spots and now – TikToks. Today, we tap into the mind of this marketing genius who reminds us to step out of our comfort zones and give the audience what they want. We discuss the perseverance necessary to play the long game, adjusting your targets and maintaining forward momentum.

For $300 off of your ticket to the Brain Trust Legal Marketing Summit, visit https://legalmastermindsummit.com/ and enter BRAINTRUST at checkout.

What’s In This Episode?

  • Who is Darryl Isaacs?
  • After 30 years and $2 Billion in recoveries – how has his definition of success shifted?
  • What is the origin story of “The Hammer”?
  • How has the blend of traditional and digital marketing changed for his firm with success and with time?
  • How does he set goals and optimize for a content life?
  • With so much brand recognition, why has he opted to choose a different domain name?

Transcript

Darryl Isaacs

When I started it, I had 2,000 cases and I was doing it all

Chris Dreyer

No matter how long you have been in the game, keep looking for that blue ocean. Once you find that untapped market go full steam ahead.

Darryl Isaacs

You have to change and adapt with the times.

Chris Dreyer

You’re listening to Personal Injury Mastermind, where we give you the tools you need to take your personal injury practice to the next level. With over 400 years of combined legal experience and over two BILLION dollars in compensation, Kentucky-based Isaacs and Isaacs has been expertly steered by the legendary Darryl Isaacs for nearly thirty years. You may recognize him from the iconic Hammer commercials, Superbowl ads, radio spots and now – TikTocs. Today, we tap into the mind of this marketing genius who reminds us to step out of our comfort zones and give the audience what they want. We discuss the perseverance necessary to play the long game, adjusting your targets and forward momentum. I’m your host, Chris Dreyer, founder and CEO of Rankings.io. We help elite personal injury attorneys dominate first page rankings with search engine optimization. Being at the forefront of marketing is all about understanding people. So let’s get to know our guest. Here’s Darryl, Owner of Isaacs and Isaacs on the path he took to opening his own firm.

Darryl Isaacs

I flunked the bar twice and my father was semi-retired and, during law school, I, I was on probation, got off and I decided I wanted to be this trial lawyer, and I wanted to have this monster practice. So I went to the courthouse for a week and I looked at every attorney that was in the court the most. And there was an attorney named Dave Kaplan. He looked like, if you ever saw Laura on Hardy, he looked like the big the gentleman I can’t remember, which is which, but he had a black to pay. Mustache probably about 275 pounds, but it was a phenomenal criminal defense attorney. Now I didn’t wanna do criminal law but I got to sit through, I worked for him for minimum wage during law school. And I, he let me sit through 22 jury trials, second chair, and I started marketing for him. He didn’t wanna do personal injury. And I said, man, there’s a lot of money. So during law school, I came up with this marketing plan and I got him 300 cases and I got to work them. . And then when I came out and flunked the bar twice, I did not wanna do criminal law, but I went to my father and he was coming. I retired and I’ll never forget his expression and face. And I said, Hey, I wanna open a practice. I’m gonna, I want you to come in and you can have half. And I’m gonna build this big empire. And he just kinda laughed at me because you gotta understand. I had three brothers and they all were straight A students. They were all engineers, lawyers, CPAs, and I was definitely the black sheep of the family. So he smiled and laughed and said, sure. And. Then I opened the, one, one of 93. And I think within a year we were all millionaires from all the cases and marketing and my father was already wealthy and semiretired, but I just, I remember to this day and. This is gonna be our 30 year anniversary coming up, but, and we have done over 2 billion and it all started with, let me have half of his name because I didn’t think a sole practitioner would get the credibility. And I just remember him, his little laugh and just that day was of a special moment

Chris Dreyer

That’s amazing. Hustle to get . 300 cases. Nowadays it’s like a bloodbath just to get, to get 300. Oh, so in those early days, what were. Were you meeting people for breakfast, lunch, shaking hands, how did you hustle to get those cases in the early days?

Darryl Isaacs

At that time the police reports were public. And I just got this idea if we could, know, write to accident victims, cuz I, I just wanted do car wreck cases and I wanted to target. So we came up with a letter in the Kentucky bar association, even then they regulated it, but we could send letters out, they got all these crazy rules and it just drafted this letter and then got it approved by the bar advertising committee. And I think everybody was in shock that it worked. I wasn’t. I always put myself in the customer’s position if I need services and I need to hire somebody, what am I looking for? And so that was easy for me. Sales has always been my forte. As early as six, I was selling donuts door to door and different things. So over the years, I really learned how to deal with people and marketing and But, it was exciting because I loved helping people and and I loved the fact he didn’t care. He just let me run with it. And in the beginning, I wasn’t very good. I think I settled my first case for him for five grand. And, but by the time I had graduated law school, he, I’d made him millions. And then I just knew I wanted to do it for myself.

Chris Dreyer

Yeah, of course. And, so we had James Faren on, in North Carolina, they have, they do a lot of heavy print. So in Kentucky, do you, are you allowed to do print in the same manner? They put some restrictions on that?

Darryl Isaacs

It’s funny, James is in one of my mastermind groups and I’m familiar. I’ve studied his stuff and I’ve been up and visited him. We north Carolina’s different. Kentucky, you have to wait 30 days, which as you can imagine, by the time 30 days is up 99% people either have a lawyer or the insurance has already got it resolved or whatever. So there’s restrictions. We don’t do that now. I don’t think it’s very effective, but James proves me wrong in North Carolina. He’s done very great business with.

Chris Dreyer

We gotta have this story. the audience wants to know, right? Your name is Omni president, Kentucky as the hammer. Even growing up myself in Illinois, your brands had an impact on me. I’ve seen your super bowl commercials. I’ve seen your billboards. So let’s start there. Where did the hammer name come from? Can you tell us that story?

Darryl Isaacs

I was with an agency and I was gold by the heavy hitter. And then I left them and they, I didn’t wanna get in the lawsuit. It wasn’t worth it. So I thought, it really doesn’t matter what name I go by. As long as I’m sincere, I’m selling myself. I There’s a lot of things that go into it. But one day I was sitting here and I don’t know it. And I’m looking in the sky, an idea came and I. I’ll go buy the Kentucky hammer because you got Colonel Sanders was Kentucky fried chicken, and I thought, I’d take the state name. And the first commercial I did was like a lightning bolt coming outta the sky and it’s the Kentucky hammer. But then over the years, everybody just shortened it to hammer. So that’s how it was born and it’s stuck.

Chris Dreyer

Darryl”s Hammer commercials are unique and play off of pop culture heavy hitters like Mission Impossible and Game of Thros. I wanted to know what goes into creating commercials that convert.

Darryl Isaacs

So I’ve always been the opinion when I want to people to hire me. What do they want to hear? They don’t wanna hear me badmouth my competition and I don’t wanna be a politician where you don’t tell me what everyone’s not doing. Tell me what you’re gonna do for me. So when I was advertising, I’ve always wanted to be direct marketing and not, now do branding, but in the beginning I wanted some, immediate response. I wanted to get shock value. Like I did some commercials early on where a desk comes, flying it down or drops outta the sky. We call it a car drop where a car drops outta the sky. So I don’t the advertiser I was with years ago, Richard socket. He’s still around phenomenal guy knows everything but advertisement. He’s in his seventies, but he got all the big firms, started myself, Morris, Bart. Ken NuGen you could go on and on. Brian Long since passed. He got me doing a couple super bowl ads. And one of ’em, we did this theme where we were known all over the world and, it was like a people in China had heard our name. And but then when I moved on to the next agency, they came up with some ideas let’s do trending. And I be honest, I never watched game of Thrones when they wanted to do it. I’ve shot. It didn’t understand what it was. And since then I love the show, but I’ve realized, we’re not movie actors, we’re not movie. Production, but people wanna be entertained and I didn’t do the super bowl. It doesn’t get me business, but it made me well known. Now I had no idea bill viral. One of ’em got 14 million views, but I just that’s where I, now I realize you, if you wanna be known, you gotta do something that makes you stand out and. That’s pretty much what we did, but none of these ideas were mine on the super bowl the company, they had some very talented people and they literally would think of these things. They’d come to me. And I would either say yay or nay, but the mission impossible one. I wasn’t wilded about that, but I love the game of Thrones and I love the dragon. I don’t know everybody laughs at me, but I thought that was so cool making doing. And that was a big hit.

Chris Dreyer

Yeah. And you have the Marvel one, the Marvel when Marvel’s really, I it’s, yeah. So I like the trending play. The the thing I’ll tell you this, from my perspective as a consumer is like, when I see a legal advertisement, a lot of times I kind of tune it out, I’m on my phone. But if there’s entertainment, I’m gonna watch it all. And I think that’s one of the benefits of the super bowl commercials. A lot of, individuals will tune it, go watch a super bowl just to watch the commercials.

Darryl Isaacs

I think the and it’s funny because. company that does my commercials, they get this concept, but I never wanted to be, if you look at all the attorneys that advertise 99% of them stand in front of law books. Okay. I just think the public knows we gotta law school. We gotta know the law, we gotta read the book, so that’s not doing anything. And I see a lot of ads and I cringe. So now I don’t wanna be the opposite trends where, oh my gosh, you’re doing some crazy stuff, but I always decided I wanna poke fun at myself. I never wanna poke fun at either others. And I, I don’t mind humor against myself. I try to be humble. So the ads are that I want them to show my personality, but at the same time, I want to entertain the public. If that’s what they want.

Chris Dreyer

Yeah. I think the self-deprecating type stuff it makes you like relate because everyone has flaws and everyone, everyone wants to be heard and seen. And I think it makes individuals trust you more too. And, a lot of people have this either or mentality. And it seems like you’re advertising, you’re doing TikTok, you’re doing social. You’re doing a lot, where does traditional sit in terms of advertising now?

Darryl Isaacs

The traditional advertising worked for years. The problem is, and I’ll never forget. In 1972, I interviewed my grandmother for a school project. I was eight years old. I wish I saved the interview cuz she was an amazing lady, but I’ll never, she said something that I never forget. And I think about it all the time. You have to change and adapt with the times. , I’m not a big fan of social media. So I’m not wild about. But it is a necessary evil the whole world. I can’t tell you statistics, but I can say three years ago, I’m spending 90% of my budget on TV today. I’m spending 30% every day. We’re spending more and more on social media and even like TikTok. I did that as an experiment because attorneys are not like, we’re not celebrities, we’re not coaches, I’m a UK fan and John Capari has a million, five followers in some of the social media. And I thought that’s just astronomical, but attorneys are boring people for the most part. So getting on TikTok, I feel like it was a challenge now it’s worked for me, but not the way I envisioned it because I do a law commercial or a law thing. And I think, wow, it’s great. And I get 5,000 views. I tell people what I have for lunch and I get 400,000 views who cares what I have for lunch. I want them to look at me for the law, but I’ve given up trying to make them do what I want. I’ve gotta accept it. So yesterday I shot a video of what I had for breakfast, and I think, I had 10,000 views last night. So if that’s what the public wants, I’ll give it to ’em. I’m not crazy about it, but so the traditional for the most part I’m not saying it’s thrown out the window because I still, I consider traditional billboard TV. Used to be phone, but I know you remember them. Yep. They’re out. At one point in Indiana, I had 40 back covers and now that’s a dinosaur. I think you could get one as a collector’s item in one of those cracker barrel restaurants or something.

Chris Dreyer

One thing that I applaud to you is, like tos new and I would say the legal vertical is slower to adapt to new channels. And the game of social media is you get all this organic content and then your organic reach starts to slow down and then they make it pay to play. You’re doing the organic you’re in early getting this I heard Gary Vanerchuk the other day say, if I’m gonna tell any business, I’d tell him to make five talks a day right now.

Darryl Isaacs

I heard him speak it up somewhere and I think, gosh, he’s a huge guy. He gets, but I think someone paid him a hundred grand to speak, but the one thing I took away from it was give them what they want. It may not be what you agree with. what’s funny is and I tell everybody this because I didn’t know this. And I learn every day. So Instagram and YouTube shorts don’t want TikTok to be TikTok, so they wanna be as successful. So they’re opening up their algorithms to reels. So now I was on YouTube on the other, cause all my super bowl ads and everything, but I started a whole new thing on YouTube shorts because I’m starting over. I think at 11,000 a woman I’m start, they had 22 describers, but every day we’re released in three videos. Because they all wanna be like TikTok. And I think that’s the next thing. And it’s funny right now, there’s about 55 to 58 law firms in my four groups. No one else, but one Jennifer, the one you interviewed, she was on TikTok. She kept saying, Dar, you gotta do, you gotta do it. And I kept telling all the. Older tier, like I don’t, I dunno if you had Mike Morris, he’s a good friend of mine. I don’t, he won’t get you business. Won’t get you business. So I started doing it and now one by one Gordon, Meuron’s doing it. Mike’s doing it. They’re all copying me. Cause I keep giving. ’em a hard way to go. I’m telling you, man, you’re gonna be behind. You’re gonna be behind, but I’m always determined to be out in front to show them it can be done.

Chris Dreyer

That I think that’s the way to do it because it’s the more people that get on the platform, the harder it’s gonna be to stand out. And you’re getting all these views right now. And like I said, it’s gonna be pay to play in the future. Sure. Back in the day, when Facebook started, you’d post a post and it would hit that organic feed, but now you maybe only 5% of your, or your followers sees it. You gotta boost it with paid ads. So we had mark Aja on from Aja Levine and he mentioned here’s the holy Trinity of advertising. He said, TV, radio, and digital. So today what do you think? What where should attorneys and I’m gonna take this twofold one new firm starting and maybe a firm that has more capital and can really push into the market.

Darryl Isaacs

I think personally, you go where the blue ocean is and what I mean by that is you go where no one else is, for years Morgan, John Morgan, and he is brilliant. He’s done radio and no one else wanted do radio. And I, for 20 years, I fought radio. About four months ago, I decided to try. There’s very few attorneys during radio and we’re killing it. And it’s a blue ocean. The cool thing for, you mentioned for people starting out and I try to counsel a lot of these. You’re okay. If you’ve never advertised because yeah. How do you compete with the big firms that have the TV? Like I just spoke about how to compete with the 800 pound gorilla, but the internet, you can do this so cheap. You can get a videographer and they could follow you around and do videos. And then you can get it transported to content and you can do these 30, 66, 30, second, 62nd ads, postman, social media, pretty much for free. And when I think of digital, I think of like paper, click and organic. But if you start out today and you don’t have much of an advertising budget, you can take your cell phone. There’s one attorney. I can’t think of his name, but I saw him a TikTok he’s already got, he went from 5,000 to like 250,000 followers, came up with a little tagline and he drives in a car. I don’t drive. You need to do it stationary, cuz. They have a lot of rules. It’s funny, but he’s built up a brand and then you go live about two or three times a week. And like I say, I’ve watched this practice grow. So there’s, there is something out there for everybody, but, and if you look at a firm, that’s got a big budget. I think you gotta be everywhere in space. I think you gotta be TV, radio pay per click. The world’s get more competitive, but the, but the good thing about. Is the internet is like having a 24 hour salesperson, phone books used to, we were on so many back coverage and they used to say, while you’re sleeping, people are looking at your ads. Internet’s the same way people are always searching in the internet. So I just think today’s times you have to be on the digital and the social media.

Chris Dreyer

The thing that I like about this is the consumers are more educated, right? So you get to jump forward and increase that velocity. They’re ready to go. They’re ready to hire you instead of trying to nurture them to make that decision and right. I of wanna shift over to this. You, you’ve built Isaacs and Isaacs, from the ground up scaling a firm, it’s not for the faint of heart and there are so many attorneys out there grinding to grow. And you’ve been at this year after year, was there a time when you were growing your firm that seemed really challenging and it took a lot of perseverance to overcome it or was it, Hey, these are just, this is day in, day out. I’ve got challenges all the time and it’s just the name of the game.

Darryl Isaacs

Sure. There’s always challenges. My issue is the opposite. I’ve always had the business, and anybody can make the phone ring, but what do you do after it rings? And so my challenge is how do you grow? Because when I started it, my father was semiretired. And I had, I didn’t have attorney for the first four years. And, I had 2000 cases and I was doing it all. So the, yes, I’ve had challenges 2008 sticks out because that’s when the real estate tanked COVID was. Far none. The biggest challenge for me, it’s funny. I tried this idea. This is another reason our mastermind groups are so great. I made a seven figure mistake. I tried a 90 bus campaign, signed the contract. They got ready to go rolled out two weeks before COVID hits. And so COVID hits and 90 buses are sitting auto for three months and you’re still paying for it. That was the challenge. But it’s like anything else, if you love what you do, you never work a day in your. You just have to persevere and, again the thing I think, for me being, attorney’s the greatest profession in the world now, I’m not saying doctors and everything. Isn’t, I just love, if I didn’t choose again, I’d do the same thing. But I love working for myself. I love helping people. So it’s I can help people. We can make good money. And at the same time, provide a service and I feel good because. Again, we help people them times that can’t help themselves. And many get taken advantage by the insurance companies. And but it’s, if anything else, there’s so many businesses that failed during COVID and it broke my heart because some were my friends. So I think there’s always gonna be challenging times. When I look at over 30 years we’ve, we’ve weathered, doesn’t matter if it’s a Democrat or Republican as president, I remember when I first came out and bought my first piece of property, the real estate was six and a half percent. Now people got so spoiled a year ago at two and a half percent. People are complaining 5%. I’m thinking heck 30 years ago it was a good deal. Cause in the eighties, when Carter was here, the interest rate was 21%, so it, you just have to weather the times and. Hopefully you, we’ve done a lot of strategic planning and we still do.
We, we do, what’s called traction and we got management and we meet and we, once a week we’re sitting there looking at all these, what’s our, what’s our one month goal. What’s our three month goal. What’s our one year goal because you have to anticipate some tough times and you gotta be prepared for.

Chris Dreyer

Let’s talk about that. So I was gonna, the business operating system, us traction, so you have an integrator. Do you guys, what does that 1, 3, 5 year or is it 1, 3, 10 year goal setting look like, I’m a di personality on that, this personality assessment. So when I went to do traction and I have a chairman that’s helping us, I could only do one, three, and. It was like 10 years was way too far out. So how does goal planning, how do you approach that? How do you approach setting a vision to get your whole, business aligned with you?

Darryl Isaacs

I never dream I’d be in the position I’m in. But I didn’t know what attracting was three years ago. And then one of our master meetings, one of the attorneys from LA. Laid out this plan. And we were just in shock. So fortunately for me, my oldest brother, mark is a retired CPA and it’s funny came back Mike Morris, I didn’t know him at the time. And I heard about this fireproof, so I read the. Called my brother and said, you gotta read the book. He puts these forms in. So mark started doing it. We were gonna do traction and we hired this consultant and COVID hit, he wanted to do it by zoom and it was so ineffective. So I just think the hell with this. And my brother, I of went to him and said, you wanna be unretired and all, so all he does is he runs our traction. He does all these spreadsheets and he helps our projections. So I, every day I know what my cost for case is what my sales are, what they’re gonna be a year from now. So it’s, he’s the one that sits down and said, okay, where do we wanna be? Five years, 10 years. And for everybody it’s different a lot of. Lawyers, I’m 58. So we’re all looking at, okay, what’s our succession plan, I’m hoping one, I got three kids. I’m hoping one of them goes to law school. You just have to, but then you gotta prepare what if they don’t, how can it, I’d like my, to say my father and I started this and he’s gone. I’d love my business to survive when I’m gone. I just think, that thing, if you. Those who fail to plan to fail. So I just think you gotta have a plan and you gotta have goals and the cool thing is you may not hit it and it doesn’t matter. If you say, Hey, I’m gonna, I wanna sign up 2000 cases this year and you get 1800 or you really disappointed, so goals are great to shoot for and to work for, but it’s not the end of the world if you don’t hit it. And The other thing is, I know many law firms that are in our groups and they all wanna be like everyone else. And I keep saying, just be the best version of you. You can be because the great thing about what we do is, like right now I wanna work this week out of Florida. So I work out of Florida, know, I’m still working, but I get to control and dictate things. and then you get everybody to believe in your vision.And you gotta have a, you don’t have to use the E OSRO method, but you gotta do some form of, there’s so many different versions out there. What I liked about the one we looked at is it’s a Salesforce platform because what we are without sales, we don’t have customers. So I want everything driven around sales and.

Chris Dreyer

Everyone talks about lead gen and getting leads, there, what do you do for intake? When you’re getting 2000 cases. I’ve always seen the, our clients the most successful do it in house. They build their intake team. So what’s some general advice on the sales side.

Darryl Isaacs

I can tell you what we do. It works for us. I don’t like attorney screening calls. Cause I think they’re worried if it’s not gonna be a certain value, they’re not gonna take it. What we came up with is we we have a team of eight people and all they do, we train them. I’m always having them train in marketing, but I want them to know everything about our firm because for us. Probably two thirds of all calls already won us. So we just gotta screw up and not run ’em off. It’s like the, I used to think McDonald’s and all that they can get bad service and people are still gonna go there. But if for us, I don’t want every client to get the best experience possible. So we have these people, we listen to some calls. We train ’em, we test them. I know some law firms use. Companies out of the country and call centers. I just don’t think it’s personalized enough. But for us, I wanna get the best. Some of my intake people have been with me 12 years, eight years, 10 years. I think the average intake of all the firms I’ve ever dealt with is like year. So I feel like what we do is good now. Sure. We make mistakes. There’s always room for improvement, but I think whoever you decide is gonna be your rep. If you’re smaller, you just have to train them and you don’t want them in a hurry to get off the phone, because think about it if you went. If you ran out and saw me somewhere and you knew I was a lawyer and they said, Hey, I got this potential case. Am I gonna give you 30 things said, Nope, I can’t help you. And move on. I’m gonna talk with you and I’m gonna interact. And over the years we’ve learned, we used to try to get ’em on and off. And that was a mistake because the intake should have the attitude you want that client, you wanna be their lawyer for life. So if you can help them today, you want them to call you tomorrow and the best way to do. Get ’em trained. Make sure they know everything about you. I didn’t realize this a couple years ago. People didn’t know when I graduated law school and this and that. And I thought gosh, how can I have them sell me if they don’t know me? So the biggest thing I would tell people whether you have one person or 10 or whatever, make sure they know everything about the firm. Like our firm is over 400 years of combined legal experience. We’ve done $2 billion. I think that’s a positive. I want people to know that. and, we’ve got a 10 million verdict. I We, there’s a lot of good things about our firm, so I want the intake or I call ’em like I don’t like the word intake cuz intake. You’re just taking information. But I like our team how can we make the customer happy today? but bottom line is you wanna train, whoever’s answering your calls. And the other thing I would tell people with technology sign ’em up right then and there we still have, and they can come in the office. We can send investigator, but we want them to know we want that case. We DocuSign right then and there. That way we’re working on your case right now, because a lot of attorneys don’t do that. And oh my gosh, during COVID we couldn’t have in person meetings and we still signed up a ton of business because we did it through DocuSign.

Chris Dreyer

Yeah. And that’s really smart. have those personalized conversations and be a human because, when you spend all this money on advertising, the name of the game that, that most people underestimate is then the future referrals and the word of mouth from that experience. Exactly.

Darryl Isaacs

Your biggest cases will come from your word of mouth referrals. We get some, but I. I bet if I track all remained our cases, probably 78% are coming from referrals.

Chris Dreyer

Wow. Wow. That’s incredible. I heard this, I read this book a while back. It was called Ready Fire Aim. And it made me think of you. And I wanted to ask this, he has this quote in the book that says something like businesses that have a disproportionate number of marketing and sales employees have a greater chance to succeed, is that kind. What’s your thoughts on, investing in marketing?

Darryl Isaacs

I see, I talked to this individual in Australia recently, he’s we invest 5% in my market sales. I’m like whoa. That’s not enough in the us. I’ve heard anywhere from 20 to 30%, what’s your approach on the investment side. some years I do 40%. Don’t think you can invest enough because think of it, everything you invest in, you’ve got an inventory of cases, they’re all future dollars. let me water this down. So let’s say I’m getting my calls per case for paper, click as 3000 a case. But my calls per case on TV is 2300. And then let’s say my calls per case through the LSA ads is 700. What? Gosh, I’d love to have the 700 all day long. I’m still gonna take the 3000 hour case because if my average fee is 15,000 still making. So I, that’s why I say, I think a lot of people get pigeonholed and say I’m only gonna spend this. I think you just gotta, take your overall budget and just make sure when you add everything up, what’s your overall cost per case. And as long as it’s a pretty disproportion under what your revenue is you’re gonna make.
I hear people, oh, I’m just doing this channel or this channel. And I think you gotta look at it, the bigger picture. And especially what you said earlier is all those activities build the brand because people congregate in different locations and, you’re just, you’re being able to be seen in the attention perspective.

Darryl Isaacs

Can I say one other thing you mentioned lead gen and I do wanna say this and I dunno Gary said this, or I’m not taking credit. I’ve heard it, but I wanna pass it on five years from now. I think the law firms that rely on lead gen are gonna be hurting. I think you need to build your brand because the problem and I got so many buddies that I’ve tried over 11 lead gen companies. I’ve never. Long term success, because what happens is they’re all trying to get leads and they’re, some of ’em are doing things that aren’t ethical and then I’m responsible because my states, I can’t get a case through a third party that I couldn’t on my own. But I just think if you pay the money to brand and market, it’s almost like you, youGive someone a fish and you feed ’em for day. You can show ’em, you can get it for life. If the more I market and brand, the more I’m gonna get customers, the rest of my life. But when I buy these lead gen and these people don’t know me from Adam, they’re not gonna come back to me when they have future cases. So I’m not a big fan of the lead gen. I know they don’t like that. Years ago, I think in 15 or 16 I was buying some from a company for like a hundred bucks. Now some of them want thousands and that’s not even for a case. So I just think the money you spend branding and marketing would be better served to build who you are. And that’s what we do. So we don’t even really use lead gen for the most part. It’s there, there might be a certain class action or something, but it’s, I’d rather put our money on branding and marketing.

Chris Dreyer

You have the hammer, right? Branding, memorability, you’ve got one call that’s all, even in your TVs, I’ve noticed a consistency of them of saying, small check and time to pay up, all these, this intentionality towards brand. And I think those taglines go a long way in being memorable.

Darryl Isaacs

Thank you. We knew we were getting this big verdict and I for three months been trying to negotiate to buy. We win because the law firm that had it and their state couldn’t use it because some states you can’t use brand names and this was one of them. So we, they finally agreed to sell it to us. And that’s probably been the best thing we’ve done in a long time. Because the problem, Isaac says six letters and everybody misspells it. So over the years I’ve always had to buy the misspellings and all the lawyers make sure you do that. If you use your last name in a domain, get all the misspellings because ours was initially Isaacs and it’s one S it’s I a CS? No matter how they spell it, they’re always gonna spell it wrong. And we win as five letters. So it’s so easy. So now everything is our email Darrell. We win.com or we win.com. And so I just that brand rebranding at this flight and the stage, and I’m not giving up a hammer brand or even, one call that’s all. We still incorporate a lot of it, but I just think a quick, easy name, like that is easy to find. That way you don’t even have to memorize the phone number anymore. You just, we win.com and there we are.

Chris Dreyer

I love We Win dot com for it’s simplicity AND that it is outcome driven. Darryl has always been a natural at marketing law firms. To tap into his genius, sign up for his marketing and management summit coming up, with a little something for everybody.

Darryl Isaacs

Any attorney that wants to get cases, you can be a sole practitioner. You can be in a large firm. You don’t have to be on TV. You don’t have to have a big advertising budget. We are going to give a lot of tips and things we’ve used over the years. I have some of the lawyers here in my mastermind groups, and then I’ve got some, like I got Ben, Trump’s gonna speak. And Andrew Holstein. He’s oh my gosh. He’s one of the top attorneys in America and he spends a fortune advertisement and he goes, that gets great verdicts. But we’re gonna have a lot of, Gordon’s gonna be on one of the panels. You mentioned Gordon and Mike Morris are gonna speak, but we’re basically gonna show everybody in two days. One of the talks I’m gonna give, how do I get million dollar cases? And so we’re just gonna show people how to do a lot of things and maybe better their practice because the whole world is shifting and it’s our way of giving back. And it’s also a networking opportunity. There’s gonna be some vendors that all of us do business with that, some of them have helped me. Make my practice very profitable and efficient. right now for the first 500 tickets, we’ve got a reduced price and I thought coming on your show I’m gonna give a discount code of if you type in the word brain trust, you can get $300 off, but it’s gonna be really neat and. All the speakers, but one are all attorneys. So it’s John and the one that’s not is John who works for Mike Morris. He helped him implement the fireproof program. Not Kael. Yeah, he’s amazing. But it’s really, for anybody that wants to get cases, you don’t have to be PI it. A lot of these marketing principles will work if you’re trying to go a bankruptcy or a criminal law. There’s just a lot of tips that we do that are inner workings with past clients and different things. And it’s at the win. Everybody loves that, it’s in Vegas easy to get to, and you’re gonna get CLE credit. We’ve been approved. We’re trying to get. As many hours as possible, but we’ve we’re in the process, but some states have already given us, like Kentucky’s already previously for over 10 hours. So we’re in the process of getting, trying to get all the states where we can get credit for them. So if they come, they’ll get CLE credit. We wanna show people half the talks are on management, what to do when you get the cases like, there’s some gonna be about intake, but it’s really to help the average attorney. Cuz there’s so many attorneys out there. And they, a lot of them just could use help in marketing and branding. So it’s just get ’em thinking and it’s a great networking opportunity. There’s gonna be opportunities for happy hours to meet some of the speakers, talk to them. It’s just a good way to go hang out with some successful attorneys.

Chris Dreyer

Amazing. as we part ways, what’s next for you and Isaacs.

Darryl Isaacs

I wanna get through the summit and then we’ll keep doing what we’re doing. We’re we love helping people. I really love these mastermind groups. Because they help me get better and then they help others get better. So it’s a win-win, but I will tell you, We’re gonna start a, what they call like a mighty network, where we’re gonna let attorneys all over the country go and. have little educational videos and you could ask questions and just talk. Just another way to help.

Chris Dreyer

Bigger firms will need to spend more on marketing – in more places – to outpace the competition. But even a young practice can grow a following and an audience with nothing more than clever scripts and a cellphone. No matter your firm size, invest in marketing and over time watch your firm grow. For a $300 discount to Darryls conference in Las Vegas, visit Brain Trust Legal Group.com and enter the code Braintrust. I’d like to thank Darryl Isaacs from Isaacs and Isaacs for sharing his story with us, and I hope you gained some valuable insights from the conversation. You’ve been listening to Personal Injury Mastermind. I’m Chris Dreyer. If you liked this episode, leave us a review. We love to hear from our listeners. I’ll catch you on next week’s PIMM with another incredible guest and all the strategies you need to master personal injury marketing.

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