Ryan Anderson:
We can actually look at the workload associated withbringing that case from one phase to another, and bringing that case toconclusion. And of course, data is power. So, the more data you have, and you bringto bear on these decisions, the better you're able to assess your team, thebetter you're able to coach your team, and build systems around that.
Chris Dreyer:
Welcome to Personal Injury Mastermind, I'm your host ChrisDreyer, founder and CEO of Rankings.io, the legal marketing company the bestfirms hire when they want the rankings and cases other law firm marketingagencies can't deliver. On this show, I've been fortunate enough to learn fromsome of the best minds in the personal injury space, and now we're bringingthem together in one place at the first ever PIM conference. PIMCon is comingto Scottsdale this September. We're laser focused on one thing, getting moreleads, and I'm not talking about just any leads, but quality leads that actuallyturn into cases. That's it, that's our entire focus. It's not just theory,we're talking about actionable strategies that have been tried and tested bythe best in the business. If you're looking to conquer personal injurymarketing and go from good to goat, PIMCon is where you need to be.
We gathered the top PI marketing experts to share theirsecrets, and believe me, this is cutting edge stuff you won't find anywhereelse. Don't miss out on another potential client. Grab your ticket to PIMConnow and get ready to supercharge your practice, your future self will thankyou. Go to pimcon.org. All right, let's dive in. Drowning in deadlines, buriedin emails, broken communication, juggling countless files, sound familiar? RyanAnderson knows this pain. As a former attorney, he felt the pressure ofmanaging a chaotic caseload firsthand. He knew there must be a better way.That's what led him to co-found Filevine, an AI-powered legal platform that'srevolutionizing the law firm operations. With Filevine serving over 3,500 lawfirms, and processing a staggering 200+ cases per hour, Ryan's vision hasclearly struck a chord in the legal community. In this episode, we unpack howAI is transforming the legal practice, from automating demand letters tostreamlining legal research, we'll explore how these tools can boost yourfirm's efficiency, accuracy, and ultimately profitability. Here's RyanAnderson, co-founder at Filevine.
Ryan Anderson:
I'm not a naturally organized individual, but I amnaturally anxious, so... And I don't want to make mistakes. I would often giveassignments to people in my capacity as a lawyer, and when I would give anassignment, maybe I was doing it verbally, maybe I was doing it via email, Iwould wind up asking the person who I gave the assignment to... So, maybe it'sa paralegal, maybe it's an associate attorney, who knows? But I've given outsome assignment, that has some completion date. A good example might be,prepare expert disclosures. And I would say, hey, so-and-so, please prepare theexpert disclosures on the Smith case, they would say great, and I would comeback three weeks later and say, hey, we've got two days left, where are theexpert disclosures on the Smith case? And this person would give me some blankstare, like what are you talking about? We've never had that conversation. Andunfortunately I am not organized enough to even remember if... They might'vebeen right, it's possible they were right. Who really knows?
The problem I was trying to solve was, it's not justknowing what I have to do, or even knowing what others have to do, it's knowingwhat has to be done and hasn't yet been done. It's really easy to saypositively you have to do a thing, and you have to do it by a certain period oftime. It's way more difficult to have a system that proves the negative. Thisneeded to be done and you haven't done it yet. And I didn't know of any systemthat did that, I looked at other products that purported to be case managementsystems, they were case management systems, some of them really good, and hadbeen around for some time, but none of them did that. And that was the problemI was trying to solve. So, I was fortunate to connect with my co-founder, JimBlake, and that was the very first product we built, and to this day, the feed,and what I would call the task lists, is, in my view, the strongest feature ofFilevine.
Chris Dreyer:
Yeah, no conversation starts well with, per my email onthis day.
Ryan Anderson:
Right. Right. Exactly. Exactly.
Chris Dreyer:
That's great that you found that, you needed the clarity,and those status update meetings, they're costly, right? It's like, hey, what'sthe update? As opposed to just logging in and seeing the activity, like yousaid. We jumped ahead, big picture... I got a bunch of granular questions,Ryan. But big picture, 80/20, what is File Filevine? What's the core featuresof Filevine that really make it stand out?
Ryan Anderson:
There are three main things a law firm does. They managetheir cases, they bill for those cases, or they receive funds via a contingencyarrangement, so time and billing work, and then document management. Thosethree are core features that have to exist. But here's the problem, not asingle case management system does any two of those well. You really can't finda great case management system that also does document management well. Youcan't find a document management system, I don't think you can find one thatdoes any case management, or any really any to speak of. And the same can besaid for time and billing systems.
Those systems tend to exist in silos, they tend to be goodat one thing, not good at the others, or they don't do it at all. So, thevision of Filevine is meant to be world-class in all three of those categories.And so, world-class in case management, world-class in time and billing,world-class in document management. Are we there yet? No, we're not, but I dothink we are well ahead of our competition, and that has been the drivingvision of the business for a while.
Chris Dreyer:
So many attorneys have the same problem, quickly findingspecific documents in their sea of case files. It's an issue that comes uprepeatedly in my conversations with law firms. Filevine has a fresh approach todocument management. They use optical character recognition for OCR, which is,for those who may not be familiar, OCR technology converts various documenttypes, scan papers, PDF, images, into searchable editable texts. Potentialimpact for our law firms is huge. Imagine being able to search through everydocument in your case files, not just by file names but by the actual contentwithin these documents. Ryan walks us through Filevine's document managementcapabilities.
Ryan Anderson:
Here's where we are today as a product and a company. Andyou're right, as a lawyer I would have this problem, a classic example mightbe, look, I know that three years ago we drafted a motion to exclude this kindof evidence, in a totally different case, and it was successful against JudgeAnderson. Now, I can't remember the case, but I know it was successful, and thesame issues happening again and I need to see that same document. Every lawfirm has got this corpus of work that they've done that is highly relevant towork they're going to do. The last thing you want to do as a lawyer is have toredo that work. The last thing your client wants to pay for is for you to redothat work. So, Filevine OCR indexes every single document that comes into thesystem, automatically.
Now, you have to be a DocsPlus customer to get that, butif you are, every single document you upload to Filevine will automatically beOCR-ed in an index for quick searching, within the document itself. We can veryeasily say, if you remember a phrase from that motion that you wrote threeyears ago, if you can type that in and we have exact Boolean search, you canfind that exact document, pull it up, give it to your associate, and say,here's exactly how we should write this motion because I did it right here,here's the case law, here's the facts, here's how we overcame some argumentsfrom the other side, go ahead and prepare this motion.
So, that's an enormous time saver, and what I love is itallows a law firm to build on its own success. So, when a law firm's donesomething that's worked, they can then say, hey, I don't have to reinvent thewheel, that's a huge benefit, not only to the lawyers at the firm but to theclients. And frankly, I think it allows your work product to get better overtime and helps you in the legal community. So, that's one example of where Ithink we've gotten to do a pretty good job about surfacing that information for…
Chris Dreyer:
Yeah, and let me ask about that. So, the optical characterrecognition, the OCRs, how granular does that get? What are the capabilities?This is a new kind of feature compared to, I've had other conversations withother case management tools, but I haven't heard of the OCR capabilities likeyou're speaking of.
Ryan Anderson:
There's a couple of different things going on here. So, Ithink our OCR is quite high quality. Now, if you say to yourself, okay, if it'sa handwritten documents by a doctor, and that doctor has terrible handwriting,can the OCR decipher all that handwriting? Maybe, you'd be surprised at howgood it can be, but maybe not. So, I don't want to overstate the case here.There's certainly documents that if they're really poor quality, for one reasonor another, we're going to be less successful in pulling out those documents.But generally, if the document is one where the characters can be read by ourtools, then you're going to have a really good searchable document.
Chris Dreyer:
Wonderful.
Ryan Anderson:
It's awesome. I can tell you it's fast, it's happening inthe background, you don't have to think about it, you don't have to say, hey,do OCR on this document, or not on that document. It's unlimited as well. So,there's no limit to how many files you can put up on Filevine, we don't limitour storage at all. It's one really amazing thing about how the system's beenarchitected, is there's no limitations to document storage, storage at all,period. And so, you can throw as many documents at Filevine as you want, and ifyou're a DocsPlus customer, we're going to OCR all those documents and makethem immediately searchable for you.
Chris Dreyer:
Yeah. And I'd imagine there's nothing worse when I get ona Zoom call, and I look in the background of an attorney's office, is all thesefile cabinets, and file sitting all over the place, I'm just kind of like,oh... Oh boy. Just the cost, the lack of being able to find the organization. Ikind of want to talk about just a general, like an outcome. Personal injuryfirms, they're juggling with complex long-running cases. You mentioned, hey,this one from three years ago we could use... Speaking specifically toFilevine, what are the features that can help reduce time on desk? So, a lot ofpeople talk about increasing case value, getting more leads, but speakingspecific to the velocity component because of how important that is from acashflow perspective.
Ryan Anderson:
Time on desk is interesting, it's an interesting metric tolook at, but I'm not sure how highly correlated it... Maybe it is, but I'm notsure that it's highly correlated to financial success. It may well be that acase sitting on an attorney's desk benefits dramatically by being on that desklonger if it's being worked in a way that is going to add tremendous value tothe case. One of the things that... Having practiced personal injury law,really grown to love the practice, and boy, the amount of respect I have forthe lawyers who've dedicated their lives to it is just to off the charts, Ijust think it's an incredible profession. On both sides by the way, not justpersonal injury lawyers, but also defense attorneys who come in and fight forthe rights of claimants who are being accused of being negligence.
I think on both sides it's really just an amazingprofession, and speaks to an underlying fairness in this country that I thinkwe should all be really proud of. But anyway, I would much rather have a toolthat gives an attorney an edge in finding something that drives the value ofthe case up, or if you're on the defense side, drives the value of the casedown, than focus on how long a file has been sitting on the desk.
Chris Dreyer:
I love the answer, I love the answer, assuming you'remaximizing the value, right? Not sitting it out.
Ryan Anderson:
Okay. That’s fair enough.
Chris Dreyer:
If you've done all that you can do, and you get the cashquicker then you can pump it into your marketing funnels and lead acquisitionchannels.
Ryan Anderson:
Yeah. There's totally good reason to care about time ondesk. So, first of all, Filevine has a really highly configurable phase basedsystems, so you can track cases by phase, in a way that I think is, I don'twant to speak out of turn here, but what I've seen from other software systems,not as customizable as Filevine on that front. And so, a a firm can get reallygranular, really specific on how they want to track the various phases of acase, and they can report on those, and they can do it in a dashboard, and theycan do it however they want. I'd be really surprised, I don't know of a system,that can go as deep on the efficiency of individual case managers, paralegals,attorneys, junior associates as Filevine can, because we can say, okay, howlong has this case sat in treatment? How long has this case sat in demand prep?How long has this case sent in demand out stage? How long has this case sat inthe negotiation phase?
And we can break that down all the way to the personhandling the case, whether it's an attorney, a paralegal, a case manager, asenior attorney, whoever. We can even go further than that. Filevine measuresevery single action you take in the system. And by action, I don't necessarilymean keystroke, in fact, it's almost never a keystroke that we're talkingabout. Filevine can say, okay, how many tasks did it take this person to getthis case to this point? How many documents did they have to look at? How manydocuments did they download? How many documents did they generate? How manymedical requests did they generate?
We can actually look at the workload associated withbringing that case from one phase to another, and bringing that case toconclusion. And of course, data is power, so the more data you have, and data can bring to bear on these decisions, thebetter you're able to assess your team, the better you're able to coach yourteam, and build systems around that team. So, that's one way that I thinkFilevine can help quite a bit of time on desk, obviously you can measure thesethings really well on Filevine.
Chris Dreyer:
So, I saw that on the analytics component, the phases, andI'd imagine that you probably get benchmarks for different phases to identifythose constraints, and I would imagine that getting those individuals thesupport they need, the training, or even top grading to get better talent...Look, we're the owners, so you give them as much resources as you can toimprove. So, that's amazing that all that data stored there. And one of the bigones is demands, right? It's getting those demands out, and I've heard somehorror stories about when they're sent out. So, you've got some new AI-poweredfeatures, and let's talk about the DemandsAI.
Ryan Anderson:
I certainly think you could, if you had all of the recordsand bills in front of you, you have filled out all of the necessary fields inFilevine, you could absolutely produce a demand in 15 minutes. A complex demandcould definitely take longer, but DemandsAI is a phenomenal product, is one ofour fastest growing products. In fact, it might be our fastest growing productnow. That, and ProjectAI, which is a, DemandsAI is a subset of ProjectAI. So, acouple things about it. There are a lot of demand services out there. A lot ofthem have gotten a lot of press, some of them have gotten funding, these arebasically third-party service providers, where you say, hey, I'm going to uploadall my medical records, I'm going to upload information about the case, I'mgoing to fill out a form, and somebody somewhere is going to work with AI,apparently. We don't actually know what they're doing. But is apparently goingto work with AI, and produce a demand in some number of days, and return itback to you.
That's a nice service, and if somebody wants to use thatservice, Filevine can accommodate that. But what I find far more compelling iswe're a software company, and so we build software. And so, we think every timewe think through building a feature, our job is how can we empower the users ata firm to do this better? And so, our demands tools, our AI tools, you don'thave to ship anything off, you don't have to ask for some third-party drafterto do an AI-assisted build of this demand, you can draft the entire demandyourself with our AI tools, and see the AI tools working, can actually see themproduce AI results and output, right in Filevine, in our AIFields tool, andthen when you go to the drafting portion of the demand workup in our FilevineDocument Assembly tool, you can see how Filevine uses multiple AI processes totake the extraction data and summarization data that has come from our AIFieldsproduct and then have that spun up through a separate AI process in FileVineDocument Assembly, to produce really fast, really fast, beautiful demands thatanybody can build.
So, whether it's paralegal, a case manager, a relativelynon-technical person can get in and utilize AI on their own, without having toship the demand off anywhere, and produce a very high quality demand veryquickly. I will tell you, this product has taken off like a rocket, it isreally fun to see what this does for law firms who maybe have been using aservice, maybe they've been trying to do all their demands in-house, but theyare seeing significant efficiencies. And again, the cool thing here is, youdon't have to wonder how it's working, you're going to see all the outputsright inside of Filevine, and right inside of Filevine Document Assembly. Acouple cool things about that, not only does it produce this demand that ofcourse you can then send off to an insurance company, the benefit of havingthis done in platform, instead of somewhere else, is that all those AI outputsnow reside permanently in your system for later reference.
Because at some point you actually want that data sittingback in your system of record. Filevine has that. So, the extraction of CCPTcodes, for instance, or the summarization of a deposition or a recordedstatement, medical chronology AI output, any of these type outputs are reallynice to be able to reference outside of the context of a demand. It's nice tohave those sitting within your case management platform, and that all happensautomatically just as part of the demands process if you are a DemandsAIcustomer. It's really cool.
Chris Dreyer:
Let's zoom out for a moment and consider the big picture.What we're talking about here is the impact of a firm's bottom line. Filevine'stools seem to address pain points, identifying bottlenecks, accelerated demand,and improving information recall. These are all factors that directly influenceprofitability. Now, I know there's been some apprehension in the legalcommunity about AI, but from what I've seen, as attorneys become more familiarwith these technologies, much of the initial hesitation is fading away. I'dlike to shift gears slightly and discuss Filevine's AI Blocks feature. I'mparticularly interested in how it might revolutionize legal research. Ryanexplains how Filevine's AI Blocks used prompts to assist with legal researchand the practical applications of this technology and day-to-day work.
Ryan Anderson:
If you are a DemandsAI customer, you pick up basically allthe AI we have to offer. We take the extraction, the workhorse of the systemand the AIFields product, and then once it gets over to our Document Assemblytool, we have AI Blocks. And those blocks basically say, okay, here we're goingto insert more customized prompts that will take the information sitting insidea Filevine, and all the different fields and categories, and start buildingnarratives around them, and start building a demand around them. So, that'swhat AI Blocks does. It does quite a bit more than that, it's probably worth afull demonstration, or full product breakdown, but blocks kind of consider itthe second pass, or the second AI review, around our DemandsAI feature. AIblocks and AIFields allow Filevine to use a variety of different AI approaches.
So, at Filevine we're using predictive AI, with our ownmodels we built ourselves, that predicts case outcomes, we use somefoundational models from some of the big players, and then we use models andembeddings, embedding strategies with outside services you may not have heardof, that are more nuanced and specific to this industry. Meanwhile, all thetime working on our own internal model that is going to take advantage of allthe data that sits inside of Filevine, to get really specific accurate correctanswers. A couple things to your point with respect to safety and security, inevery case, if we are using artificial intelligence, we are not sending out thedata in a way that can be read by any third-party service, those services donot retain the data in any way, and importantly, this is the most importantpart, they do not train on the data.
And so, you can rest assured that if you're using our AItools, your data is going to remain safe, and certainly not going to be slurpedup into some machine learning tool outside the confines of Filevine. So, thatshould be really reassuring to anybody who's thinking about using AI.
Chris Dreyer:
I love that, especially for the larger PI firms that havethe data with a... Which is a tremendous advantage for them.
Ryan Anderson:
Totally.
Chris Dreyer:
I want to circle back just because we just briefly talkedabout it, and I think you said it at the very beginning, it's one of thebiggest advantages of just the communication capabilities, and just overall, ofcase management. You said, hey, the feed is one of our biggest advantages, butlet's just talk about, there's so many different roles, right? There's thelawyers, the paralegals, the clerks, a ton of individuals... Let's just talkabout how Filevine addresses the collaboration and helps with the communicationbreakdowns. I know we've touched on some of it, but maybe just give you theplatform just for a moment to speak on that.
Ryan Anderson:
Look, we're really proud of the fact that Filevine does abetter job of what we'd call internal and external communication. Certainlyinternal communications, I think we do a better job of that than anybody, andby a pretty significant margin. On external communication, we're doing somework there, but I think we have long had the best embedded texting SMS featureon the market. But every single communication that happens on a case... And itcan happen in a variety of ways, lawyers all know this. A communication cancome in via email, it can come in via text, it can come in via a phone call, itcan come in via an in-person visit. There's just an enormous amount of inputsand modes with which those inputs come into a case, and need to bememorialized, and cataloged such that attorneys and paralegals can make senseof them and develop a case strategy.
If a law firm decides, and really, this has to happen fromthe top, hey, we're going to utilize Filevine as our source of truth foreverything that's going on on a case. That means all notes, that means alldocuments, that means all tasks and internal communications. What you will havecreated is a system where, basically, you can drop in anybody, a case manager,a paralegal, a new attorney, who says, hey, I want to get up to speed on thiscase, they can run an AI summary, that's going to be really good because thatAI summary is going to be able to take advantage of all the data sitting in thecase, but also they can just read through the case, and a chronological waythat takes into account all the different inputs from all the differentsources. With respect to internal communications, I found as a lawyer, and Ihave to think other lawyers see this problem, they make a decision on a case.
We are going to... I'll give one example, but there couldbe... In this particular case, for whatever reason, we're not going to bring awage loss claim. Who knows? They decided to drop the wage loss claim. Okay. Ayear later, your client says to you, why aren't you bringing a wage loss claim?You might've had that conversation with a client, I sure hope if you did, youhad the client sign something, saying, hey, I agree not to bring a wage lossclaim, and here it is in the file. Beyond that, do you also have the threadedhistory of why you decided not to bring that claim? There may be any number ofreasons why that maybe didn't make sense at the time, but boy, it would bereally helpful if you can say, actually, Bob, the reason we're not bringingthis claim is because you mentioned these things to us, and we actually thoughtin your case, the juice wasn't worth the squeeze.
It might open up avenues for discovery that don't reallymake sense in your case, and ultimately, you weren't going to get a lot out ofthis claim anyway, and we had that conversation, we went through that, and Ican see in June of 2018, that's exactly the conversation that you and I had,and my internal team talked about it, and we feel really comfortable with thedecision we've made. That is such an important conversation to be able to havewith your client, especially when they're questioning you later on. Even worse,if there's a bar issue or something later on, or heaven forbid, a malpracticeclaim, so nice to be able to have that internal communication as to whysomething happened. But it may not even be that the client's upset, you mightjust want to know, why did we do this?
A partner might come onto a file and say, who in the hellmade a decision not to pursue a wage loss claim? That was a huge mistake, whywould you do this? And now all of a sudden some poor associate has to defendthemselves, and they may not even remember. And so, all of those kinds ofproblems in a law firm, that really do slow law firms down, and bring a bunchof acrimony into the firm, and I think create an environment of distrust andhurt cultures, all of that can be avoided if people just say, hey, you knowwhat? We're going to have one internal communication system, it's not email,it's the case. It's the case that sits in Filevine.
Chris Dreyer:
I love that, the historical record, the alignment,everything that comes with it. I'd imagine too, it has a real impact on thecase manager's ability to do their job, and to keep the client informed, togive them this unique experience, because they don't have to go check andinterrupt someone's workflow that it's right in the case management, and itcreates a good process for creating evangelism through that as well.
Ryan Anderson:
You're totally right, Chris. In fact, I would say thatmost clients get mad most of the time because an attorney's not returning aphone call. I would say that's usually, if a client's upset, it's because ofthat. Not always, of course, there's many reasons the client might be upset,but usually they don't think their lawyer's returning their phone call fastenough. In my experience, the lawyer isn't not returning the phone call becausethe lawyer is lazy, or she doesn't want to return the phone call, or she hatesthe client... I'm not saying that's never the case, but it's usually not thecase. What has usually happened is this poor lawyer doesn't have an answer, shedoesn't actually know the answer to the question that the client is callingabout.
And that's a real challenge, and maybe she's waiting onher paralegal to get back from vacation. Maybe she's waiting on the associatethat handled that hearing to come tell her what's going on. Maybe she's waitingon any number of things to be able to get an answer to the client, all of thatgets alleviated. If everything's in the case and everything's sitting in thatFilevine communication record, that lawyer can confidently get on the phonewith their client and say, hey, here's what's happening, here's why, here'swhat I think the next step should be.
Chris Dreyer:
So, for those attorneys rocking the spreadsheet, or thenotes on the desk, or needles, or something of that nature...
Ryan Anderson:
I get it. I get it right. I know what it's like to use aGoogle Sheet to run cases. It's a good idea, it doesn't work over the long run.It's going to get way too complex.
Chris Dreyer:
Ryan, this has been amazing, one final question, what'sthe best ways for listeners to learn more or to get in touch?
Ryan Anderson:
We'd be thrilled to talk to any one of you, Filevine.comwill have multiple ways. I'm quite certain, if you give your email to us onFilevine.com, we will find multiple ways of reaching out to them.
Chris Dreyer:
Thanks so much to Ryan for coming on the show, let's hitthe takeaways. Go beyond basic revenue tracking, let's talk about implementinga profit per case tracking system. This gives you a view of which types ofcases truly drive your profitability. By understanding the profit margin foreach case category, you can refine your marketing strategy and adjust. It'sabout optimizing your efforts for maximum financial impact.
Ryan Anderson:
I don't know of a system that can go as deep on theefficiency of individual case managers, paralegals, attorneys, juniorassociates as Filevine can say, okay, how many tasks did it take this person toget this case to this point?
Chris Dreyer:
Data-driven performance management. This isn't just aboutcollecting numbers, it's about leveraging them to propel your firm board,consider metrics like timer resolution, case value progression, and clientsatisfaction scores. Create individual performance dashboards for your members.This approach fosters improvements and gives you concrete insights forstrategic decision-making.
Ryan Anderson:
We can say, okay, how long has this case sat in treatment?How long has this case sat in demand prep? How long has this case sent indemand out stage? How long has this case set in the negotiation phase? And wecan break that down all the way to the person handling the case, whether it'san attorney, a paralegal, a case manager, a senior attorney, whoever. We caneven go further than that, Filevine measures every single action you take inthe system.
Chris Dreyer:
Put your Skynet fears on the side, AI is here to stay. UseAI to handle routine tasks, freeing up your attorneys for high value work thatdirectly impacts case outcomes. Pair this with a centralized communicationsystem to eliminate information gaps and reduce errors. This combination notonly accelerates processes, but also enhances the quality of your service, andthat's a win for everyone.
Ryan Anderson:
If a law firm decides we are going to utilize Filevine asour source of truth for everything that's going on on a case, that means allnotes, that means all documents, that means all tasks and internalcommunications, what you will have created is a system where, basically, youcan drop in anybody, a case manager, a paralegal, a new attorney, who says,hey, I want to get up to speed on this case. They can run an AI summary, that'sgoing to be really good because that AI summary is going to be able to takeadvantage of all the data sitting in the case, but also they can just readthrough the case in a chronological way, that takes into account all thedifferent inputs from all the different sources. You could absolutely produce ademand in 15 minutes.
Chris Dreyer:
For more information about Ryan, check out the show notes.Before you go, do me a solid, and smash that follow button to subscribe. Don'tmiss out on another episode with Personal Injury Mastermind with me, ChrisDreyer, founder and CEO of rankings.io. All right, everybody, thanks forhanging out, see you next time. I'm out.
