Paul Bamert:
In my research most firms don't want to ask, how are you doing? Because they're scared about the answer.
Chris Dreyer:
Welcome to Personal Injury Mastermind. Each week we examine how the best in legal industry go from good to GOAT. I'm Chris Dreyer, founder and CEO of Rankings.io, the legal marketing company. The best firms hire when they want the rankings, traffic, and cases, other law firm marketing agencies can't deliver. Here at PIM we don't just talk about it, we are about it. If you're ready to dominate the personal injury arena and champion your firm, join me at PIM con, the first-ever official PIM conference. Conquer marketing, network with Titans, celebrate excellence and go for the gold this September in Scottsdale at the five-star Phoenician Resort. Secure your place among the elite. Reserve your all-access pass into the winner's circle at PIMCon.org where we take you from good to go. All right, let's get on with the show.
Immediacy, transparency, real-time reviews, ownership after referrals, this is the future of client engagement. Consumers expect the same level of service from attorneys as they do from global providers like Airbnb, Uber, or Amazon. As a result, transparency, efficiency and mobile connectivity are non-negotiables. Case Status aligns with these consumer tech trends to deliver a modern experience. The slam dunk solution transforms the client experience, reducing friction in client communication while fueling firm growth. The results are happier clients who provide more reviews and referrals while staff capacity expands. VP of product marketing, Paul Bamert is here today to help keep your firm at the forefront of tech-based client service. Paul built his career at the intersection of business and technology. He specializes in disruptive SaaS solutions and he's obsessed with creating radically better customer experiences. Today, he maps out the real-world difference Case Status makes through everything from automation to visibility. And proves why streamlined engagement is the key to earning client trust and boosting firm growth over the long haul. Here's Paul Bamert, VP of product marketing at CaseStatus.
Paul Bamert:
We're a software solution for law firms who care about their clients. So our software platform, unlike a lot of the other legal tech out there, is radically focused on the wants and needs of your client. And to make all of that happen while making you scale better on the back end. So we study the behavior of consumer trends which are changing all the time, and how we can use those trends to deliver technology that allows your client engagement to be modern and scalable. And that drives firm performance, it makes your staff happier and ultimately in the big picture of long-term outcomes of a going concern, which is what most legal practices are, it drives growth, earned growth, strong brand growth. It turns your clients into rating fans and those are the most powerful things for a law firm to be around for 10, 20, 30 years and to have a real establishment in the community. And that's what we're all about.
So we feel we're a little bit different because we're not focusing on the legal work, we're not focusing on what happens in the back office. We're exclusively focusing on that relationship between the firm and the client in this digital day and age.
Chris Dreyer:
There is this entire client journey from the first touch point to the very end, and then even maybe after their case is done you could turn them into this evangelist type of scenario. So I think what a lot of people, maybe what's popping in their head is I've got a CRM or I have a Clio or a Filevine, and some of these tools have some capabilities to text or to communicate with their clients. So why would an attorney who maybe has already adopted say a Litify or a Filevine or whatever, think about also incorporating case status. Let's start there before we talk about the different applications of the client journey.
Paul Bamert:
Yeah. No, I think it's a great place to start because those companies are doing awesome things. And the idea of adding client portals, which is oftentimes where the vernacular goes to those systems seems initially intuitive. And you can go to Google right now and type legal client portals and you'll get a lot of different answers. The thing you'll notice is you'll actually get four or five sponsored entries, which means people are hunting on that word. The fact that they're hunting on that word means a lot of people are searching for it. Why are they searching for it? Because they got real pay, staff is not working as effectively. And the most sort of superficial symptom is come back from lunch and you just have email and voicemail and everybody's asking the same question, "What's going on with the case?" So where these practice management or case management are really good in my take is on the back office. They have built their happy clients and their whole business proposition on this idea of helping attorneys get the work done and do it better, the work has to get done.
So when they add a portal, typically what we see though is there is this bias to staff when you build a user experience. For instance, we'll just build a web portal and we'll go with that. Consumers aren't using browsers. So if you immediately launch a browser portal and say, "We'll build it, the clients are going to come, you immediately put yourself at a disadvantage with a headwind because consumers aren't using browsers. Staff on the other hand love browser portals. Why? Because they're sitting at a desk doing work in a PC like I'm on this MacBook, throw up a browser, do software as a service. It's very commonplace for work, but for the consumer client who's on the move and using their smartphone five hours a day, they're spending their time in apps. And apps are really sort of one of those things that is a nuance.
And again, they could choose to go with an app. There is other considerations to be, but that seems to be one of the biggest things back to the CRM or the practice management, the case management, is they're really good at the back office and we integrate with all the leaders out there, Chris. And that's important to state. And we do not want to create a stacked source of truth. The case management and practice management, that's where it's. So we do believe in strong integration, which is not an easy task to be able to pull from that single source of truth and build that window for the end users.
Chris Dreyer:
Yeah, and I want to talk about all those applications with the case managers and identifying constraints and getting into that. But I had just one thought. So this is mainly from my understanding, to keep the consumer aware and abreast of what's going on. Would this work from let's say a referral capacity? So we had James Helm from TopDog Law, and one of the issues that he's had is he may refer a case to another firm. He's got to check in to see the status of his case and he doesn't really know and maybe they have different technology. Would this be something that could potentially benefit him because like the consumer he's kind of in the same way like, I don't know the status of the case and he's got to send these kinds of check-ins.
Paul Bamert:
We do have a use case for that type of scenario and I'll boil it down to our marketing. So when we talk about client engagement and a lot of the legal tech out there, we haven't really talked about intake. So when we think about those interactions, that's where it all sort of begins and rolls through. But the truth is once you bring them in and make them a client and you bring them through that journey, ultimately they're your best asset to go back to this virtuous cycle of intake. And that's where we begin that measurement process as well. So not only are we giving the conduit by which the law firm can provide updates, drive communications, run checklist items, manage appointments so that the client doesn't fall between the cracks, missing appointments on important timelines, but we can actually also ask how are you doing and measure.
And so there's two sides to that, which is when somebody gives you a nine and 10, and even if it's early on, that's great for asking for a referral directly. That's the time when you want that person to say, "Yeah, I have my contact information right here. Let me just text you." Review is the other thing, which is go onto my Google account and leave me a five-star review because you gave me a 10 when I asked you how were you doing. Those are the good sides of it and that's where it does dig gap growth for the personal injury firm exposure very [inaudible 00:08:22], again, these happy clients are basically one of your best marketing budgets and they make your marketing dollars go further. On the flip side, there's also the check engine light. We celebrate when you get a six because in my research most firms don't want to ask, how are you doing? Because they're scared about the answer.
And legitimately so because when they get a six, there's no playbook to do, oh, what do we do here? Then when you get the six or the five, we can build automations that help you tee up that check engine light. It's on, well, what's wrong? Well, you have a low oil level. Well, let's get that oil checked out. You can build playbooks in the automation that follow up immediately, offer to schedule a quick appointment to rebuild trust and to get the backup trust. And there's a lot of research that shows that those sixes that get turned into nines or 10s are that much stronger. And so that's the really cool thing about engagement. They come to us because they're like, "I'm pulling my hair out, I need to do my legal work, but I can't because I'm constantly replying to the same question over and over.
So we're able to solve that pretty early in the outcomes, but once we do that and we start measuring how happy they are, we can start moving people from the low scores to the high scores and know why and then do more with them down the road. And that's where we get into some of the ideas that I really am pushing which is called earn growth, which is that tailwind updraft to your business of happy clients doing the work for you and making your intake and marketing spend go further.
Chris Dreyer:
Let's talk about the application of Case Status on this journey, different major milestones. We've got the initial sales intake and then we've got the beginnings of the case and the mid-journey and then towards the end, tell me kind just some examples of what I might receive if I was a consumer and how that process worked. And I guess let's just start from maybe the sales intake side at the very, very beginning.
Paul Bamert:
So let's assume that you're using traditional methods by which to bring those folks in and you're making them a client. The best part about it with our most successful customers is they're actually talking about the fact that they have an app. We have a few folks that are actually putting it on billboards and showing... We have one immigration firm. I know it's not related here, but it could be a good analog to the personal injury that has a lot of bilingual or multicultural area. She gets on her website and just goes on a video talking about in Spanish the app. And so we do believe that there is a part of intake that says, "Look, we're different. We use technology the way you expect to use technology." And so when they come in they kind of know what to expect. And so the first thing they get is an invite like we all get from an Uber app, if would do a little invite and challenge to you to make sure you're authenticated, that just comes to your cell phone.
So again, a few use cases that we've had in personal injury workers and others is some people don't have an email. So they come in, they download the app off of the Google or Apple Store and now they're into their journey. It's firm branded, pure colors look and feel, and I know exactly where I'm at. I'm in stage one. Well, what's stage one? I have a description, click on it, see more information. Again, each firm gets to dictate what that first one is. Usually it's like a treatment phase, we've got to get you healthy, we've got to get you right to know what the damages and the costs are and they're oriented there. So that's the big thing. I love the Fidelity commercials where they have the green, where does retirement begin and end?
Well, you're on the green path and so that's the really cool thing. You're injured, you might be out of work, you might be out of conversation but you can come here and see that you're on track where you need to. In addition to the stage, which will change over time, when you go to stage two you get an alert, you'll see it visually. It's really nice from that standpoint. But in addition to that, you have a messaging function which allows for two-way communications. A lot of your automated messages will show up there. It'll be a thread that'll show all the historicals and I can create messages for my team and communicate to them. You also have appointments and treatment tracking, which is really powerful because I hear a lot of personal injury attorneys talking about they could move faster if their client would move faster. So this is a great way where you as staff can assign appointments and it shows up.
Just like for this podcast, I loved it. I was getting alerts all the time reminding me, "Hey Paul, me and Chris got to talk." We got this thing at four o'clock. So those constant reminders. Imagine if you have that case that had so much potential that your client's not really organized, where that smart devices constantly tell them get there. The other thing it has is treatment track. So when they get done with the appointment, they can give immediate feedback to the personal injury team about how it went. What happened there? Was it a good appointment? What was the output? So really powerful, bidirectional piece of information to keep them on track. The last thing and I'll stop there, is the process tag. So it shows it soup to nuts beginning to end, and I always love that one. Look, I hope I never have to hire anybody in your audience, to be quite fair. When you hire a personal injury lawyer, it's because you have to.
But if I did, I can imagine there'd be that Tuesday night I'd wake up at 3:00 AM and wonder what the hell am I doing? Did I hire the right guy or girl? To be able to go in there and actually see all of the process that brings people peace of mind, it gets rid of the buyer's remorse and gets them focused. That's a big piece of that experience that will constantly be engaging. So it's not a one and done, it's an interaction and it's a bi-direction.
Chris Dreyer:
I guess if you're a case manager or whoever's the client facing individual, whether it's an attorney, case manager, whoever, I could see some challenges maybe with you shoot an email, they don't answer or some people want a WhatsApp message or some people want a text, some people want a call. But I guess if you could, when you're signing them up have them download the app or once they're a client, it kind of forces the communication to one location so nothing's lost in translation. Have you noticed that that communication from just a loss in translation, communication consistency has improved on the client service side?
Paul Bamert:
Phone was invented in 1890 something. And you go through phone and email and text and fax, every time we reintroduce a new one we never get rid of an old. And if you really get down to why that is, it's because we can never move a majority of our customer or clients to the new tech. Unless you can get 60, 70, 80% adoption of the new technology, you're just adding another thing. And you're making it harder for your staff because now you have yet another area to do responding to. So what we've seen in our deployment of our app and we do do both a web browser portal and an app, we have both, it's a horse race every time we launch a customer. And every time we see 70, 80% adoption of the app. There's this really great piece of research from DataReportal, an eMarketer that shows this five hours a day and 93% of time in apps.
So that app has turned out to be the consolidator. So when you look at the successful family of firms that are using our solution, and there are a lot of PI folks that are doing it, what they're able to do is not just eliminate email and phone and text. They're able to greatly reduce it, almost eliminate where they're basically taking the Pareto principle and saying 20% are going to use these old technologies, but 80% are going to be consolidated in a single place. And that's an amazing step forward. Again, I won't show my age, but I never thought in my time that emails could be made obsolete. They can be made obsolete. So it's really consolidation story when it comes to the messaging and a lot of the chasing and all that stuff is.
But you're exactly right, it all aggregates on the smart device. So whether it shows up as a message in the app or on the app with a little red dot saying you got a message, or as a push notification, or as a backstop, an SMS text, it's all there and it's all going to the same place just like your reminders to be here on time. So that's the big thing that keeps that client focused and on task.
Chris Dreyer:
One of the things I see a lot of times with these negative reviews on Google, one of the biggest issues is, well, I don't know the status of my case or I haven't got an email in forever. So this kind of solves a lot of it. This is a tool that can impact profit. So we talked about the applications of getting more reviews. We talked about it for maybe you don't have anybody poaching your client and then they get unhappy and go to another attorney.
Paul Bamert:
We do have a use case for that as well because when you do all the work on intake, well, for whatever reason you've captured that opportunity. And even if that person needs to get with a specialist or work with somebody else in your network, arguably you should own that brand. So one of the things we can do is actually bring in an attorney outside of your PLLC and actually let them use our Case Status platform. So you own the relationship and you bring in this up. So it's not just about handing it off and hoping for the best and hoping that your brand stays intact. No, you can say that your firm owns that relationship. You can bring in some neuro or brain injury specialists that maybe is in your network, work the case but at the end think what you get. It's not just the poaching during the case potentially. You get that review, lifetime of review and we see that... I call the client alumni.
They're not necessarily going to delete that app off of their phone. You can communicate in perpetuity. Nothing better than sending that anniversary of your settlement automated message, "Congratulations, it was a year ago, can you believe it? We wrote you that big check." And they get that message and now they're not doing that favor for that other attorney, they're doing it for your law firm.
Chris Dreyer:
Wow. That is a huge value add. I'm really excited to share that and just emphasize that. Thank you for bringing back that point. I want to lean into leverage and capacity. So case managers if you're a volume shop, you might be able to do 100 on the docket, you might have 150 or 200, who knows? Does this give you more capacity because you're utilizing software so it speeds up from an efficiency standpoint. Does it help you identify constraints in terms of maybe this case manager's got too much and you need another case manager? How does it impact that from a labor-based leverage perspective?
Paul Bamert:
Yeah, so what I see, there's a couple of ways to look at that and I do think it pushes the upper echelons of number of cases per attorney or per caseworker. So the productivity is definitely there and we have use cases of that. What we typically see first and foremost is just getting staff back on staff legal type work and out of the distraction. So that's always a productivity gain in and of itself. But the other side that I think when you talk about growth and sort of swinging for the fences kind of a moment, I look at Ryan McKeen at Connecticut Trial Firm. We've worked with them extensively and he did a session, this focused on getting that $100 million settlement or verdict, which they recently got with a particular case. And those to me are very intriguing cases because I don't know if you've ever followed the pharmaceutical business, but to bring a pharmaceutical to market and take a decade and a company can easily go bankrupt on the way to that because of the amount of trials and just efforts, hoops they have to run through.
And people wonder why pharmaceuticals are always trying to make bank when they finally get to market, but it's because of that heavy upfront capitalized period. The thing that's dawned on me is some of these big cases that your audience has to go after, you can actually go broke trying to get there and you know that it's good. And so Ryan's use case is very interesting. So knowing that he wanted to set up a firm that could have that big flagship moment, you can't just do that and nothing else. So what he was able to do because he built with Filevine and with Case Status and the integration, and his whole tech staff actually working together was he could run his staff efficiently on the keep the lights on cases. Your traditional average case, which Connecticut Trial Firm has lots of those, not every case is the $100 million verdict.
And so I think that's a really intriguing way to think about everybody has a portfolio, not all personal injury cases are the same. And depending on how you want to manage your business, do you want to keep your options open for those bigger enterprise deals? As we would call it in Case Status, those enterprise verdicts. And then you have your small medium, and that's where I think it gives an organization the more flex. It's not about getting 400 small cases versus 200. There is a law of large numbers there, but I don't think that's what we see on our firm. So it's a little bit more of just more dynamic firm management to get the cases and maximize each one, knowing that your team is focused on the work not on the-
Chris Dreyer:
You have client service software, that's at its key. And you opened with kind of the elevator pitch of what it does, who's it for? Why should they be thinking about this? Also, pricing.
Paul Bamert:
This is a new segment to the business. Law firms are a little bit behind what the banking industry, for instance, did in 2008 and started to do. And that's natural because we're all sole proprietors at some level or we're a conglomeration of attorneys. So the idea of having technology that services your clients and that engagement and makes it intimate while it's not human to human, if that makes sense. There is still the human to human interactions, but more and more of the percentage becomes technology proxy. And to be able to do that, that makes it still feel human is what this client service idea is all about. Pond Hockey will talk about us in Philly and they will say, "This is my customer client operations platform." So regardless of what I call it, I love it when they say something like that. But client operations platform doesn't mean anything to the average PI attorney.
They're not thinking about that. So the hard part about answering that question isn't to tell you who I am for you to discover sort of what your clients need in this day and age and put yourself in their shoes. And to consider the idea of what a platform like ours can bring to bear while still integrating with that back office platform which is key. So I think that's my sort of closing argument, if you will, is I don't expect anybody to listen to my voice while they're hopefully jogging a 5K out there listening to us. But what I hope they do is that I'm the protagonist to say, "Huh, maybe I want to research this idea a little bit more." Do the research, read the briefs, look for success stories. You'll see it all over the stuff that I'm doing on the website, which is let my customers, my PI customers, my worker staff customers, my mass support customers, let them tell you why this is awesome.
And it's not going to be because of some marketing statement. It's going to be because they reduced my emails, they reduced my phone calls, they saved me this amount of hours per year, they increased my net promoter score from in the toilet to Amazon level world-class, and my reviews and my referrals are growing. That to me, that's the mechanical engineering. You want sushi? No, I'll sell you raw, dead cold fish. This is the raw dead cold fish. It's in the numbers. And if you want your business to grow and flourish, that's where I make my closing argument. Check it out, it will have a payback. On the pricing which is of course we are a premium provider as I will acknowledge at that level, everything we will do is solution oriented. If you don't have a pain, then we will not align with it.
But it is based on the number of active cases and the type of practice area. So the pricing is dependent on that, but it's analogous to what you'd see if you were a small 100 case personal injury attorney. It's analogous to what you were paying for the back office. The difference that I will say is we can draw and connect dots to those growth metrics, which is an ROI conversation, not a cost conversation. And you'll hear that from every case status person time and time again. Let's talk about growth and the bet on growth and not on cost, because thinking about it as cost, we're having the wrong conversation.
Chris Dreyer:
Yeah, that's like the half glass full or the half glass empty. So I'm with you 100%. Paul, thank you so much for coming on the show. And where can people go to learn more and connect with you?
Paul Bamert:
Www.casestatus.com, there's some great resources there. We've got a demo that you can easily launch and check out that client experience in a matter of three minutes. There are calculators out there to do some of the, what would it look like in my world? Start there. And there are resources out there to help you learn and to see what other firms are doing. Reach out to your network, find one of our firms on there that you know and ham them up. See us at one of the next conferences. But yeah, anywhere and everywhere I'm at pbamert.casestatus.com. Always welcome an email if you're interested in learning more from me.
Chris Dreyer:
Thanks so much to Paul for sharing us with him today. Let's hit the takeaways, time for the pinpoints. Make the client the hero of your brand story by providing a dedicated app for clients. To seamlessly track cases and communicate with your firm, you transform each client into a raving fan. Use the app to capture positive feedback and reviews so you can promote real-life client stories across your website and marketing materials. This hero focus will differentiate you from other firms still relying on outdated communication channels.
Paul Bamert:
Our software platform, unlike a lot of the other legal tech out there, is radically focused on the wants and needs of your clients. And to make all of that happen while making you scale better on the back end.
Chris Dreyer:
Turn satisfied clients into marketing assets. The most cost-effective marketing comes directly from happy clients. Case Status allows you to monitor satisfaction levels in real time. Identify delighted clients instantly so you can request online reviews. Nothing builds credibility faster than clients sharing firsthand stories about how you simplified and approved the case process.
Paul Bamert:
These happy clients are basically one of your best marketing budgets, and they make your marketing dollars go further.
Chris Dreyer:
Submit client relationships with specialist referrals. When you need to refer a case to another specialist, maintain ownership. Care for the client relationship by keeping clients logged into your firm's app. This prevents confusion by providing a single point of access for status updates and also reduces the risk of poaching and keeps your brand at the forefront. Now, any positive outcome reflects back on your firm first, cementing the client as a loyal brand advocate for life.
Paul Bamert:
Own the relationship, not just about handing it off and hoping for the best and hoping that your brand stays intact. No, you can say that your firm owns that relationship. You get that review.
Chris Dreyer:
All right, y'all, that's it for today. But before you go, I want to extend a personal invitation to PIM CON the official PIM conference September 15th through 17th. I would love you to join me to learn how to conquer marketing, network with Titans, celebrate excellence and take your firm from good to go. We've got early bird pricing for a limited time. Lock in your spot with the PI Elite at PIMCON.org. That's P-I-M C-O-N.O-R-G. Link is in the show notes. Thanks for listening to Personal Injury Mastermind with me, Chris Dreyer, founder and CEO of Rankings.io. See you next time.
