John Berry:
We're in this case to win this case, and I'm going to do whatever I can to help you. My expectation is that when I'm on the stage up there, you're helping me. I can't stress how important it is to have a team.
Chris Dreyer:
The Warrior Ethos isn't just for the military. This guiding principle can be used to lead a firm to victory.
John Berry:
It's not some dude in a loin cloth holding a sword. It's a team of warriors fighting together, making sure we all get better every day.
Chris Dreyer:
Welcome to Personal Injury Mastermind. I'm your host, Chris Dreyer, founder and CEO of Rankings.io, the preeminent personal injury marketing agency. Before we get started, if you like what you hear, head on over to Apple or Spotify and pound that five star review button. And if you don't like what you hear, tell me about it In a one star review. I got a big hug for all my haters too. Each week we talk to the best in the legal industry. Ready to dominate your market? Let's go. John Berry leads his team of 30 plus attorneys across all 50 states to fight for his clients. The Berry Law Firm is one of the fastest growing law firms in the Midwest and at the Inc. 5000 six years in a row. A Veteran himself, he's an unapologetic defender of our constitution and an advocate for Veterans. Part of his success is understanding his avatar. No, not those tall blue aliens, but your ideal client and catering to that specific person. Here's John Berry, owner and CEO at Berry Law Firm.
John Berry:
My father was a trial attorney. He took me to courtroom when I was young. I met a lot of judges and got to watch him in trials. Just being the oldest son in the family, the thought was that I will take over the family business, so I better learn it.
Chris Dreyer:
Your father, legendary attorney John Stevens, very senior. Were there particular values that he instilled in you that still ring true today that he really pushed on raising you?
John Berry:
Yeah. My dad taught me how to make sure the client feels understood. Not only was he a Veteran, but also a radio show personality. He was actually being paid for the drive time, the 4:00 to 6:00. Imagine this. Now, lawyers would pay millions of dollars to be on the 4:00 to 6:00 PM radio show. But he really showed, I think, the creative side of law, right? That law, kind of like marketing, there's a numbers aspect and a science to it. In trial, you'd better know your rules of evidence cold. But if you can't be creative, it's hard to win. I think it's very similar to marketing. He would go out and market himself, not by paying for it, but by being on this radio show and talking about the constitution and supporting and defending the constitution as a soldier and then later as a lawyer.
Chris Dreyer:
That's so unique and it's so difficult now. I mean, of course, you know this so well, just how expensive it is to get attention. You've done an excellent job of that. Inc. 5000, I think five years in a row.
John Berry:
Six!
Chris Dreyer:
Six years. Six years. Fantastic. Fantastic. I just wanted to jump into that. What's your philosophy on marketing and business development? Where do you see this in garnering intention?
John Berry:
Well, I think it's important to educate the public, right? At the end of the day, I learned this in criminal. I tried a lot of criminal cases. Someone's complete family is destroyed, their future's destroyed, their name's been tarnished forever. How do you get that back? Sometimes it's after the trial. Clients still tell me, "It's great. I have my freedom, but this false accusation has ruined my life." I've always thought about it in terms of the clients. You find usually that if there's one victim, there could be thousands, just like Camp Lagoon and maybe there's other military bases and there's other things that we have to look at. I think sometimes to get that message out there is extremely important. As lawyers, our job is to educate the public. If we're not educating the public, we're failing. In some ways, it comes off as marketing, and it should because that's what it is. We need to be honest that we need to drive business. But on the other hand, educating the public about what we do is crucial.
Chris Dreyer:
When you look at that and you're trying to choose a channel, are you looking at just any avenue that can drive attention, like a distribution? I've seen your YouTube channel. You got a few thousand followers on both channels. You've got very strong taglines, "in it to win it." How does that play in your message when you're choosing which channels to disperse this message?
John Berry:
It's tough, and I think that's the scariest thing in marketing right now. I mean, keep in mind, 20 years ago, I was mad when the second phone book came out, because it's like, oh no, I got to advertise in both books. It's going to cost twice as much money. I mean, it was driving a ton of business until the phone books all died. But you've got to test and measure everything, and you don't know what works until you do. That's really the science of it. Now, you want to test the strong taglines. And if you have a big enough team and enough money, you can A/B test, this works, this doesn't work. But do I really care if red works better than blue or whatever? No, I don't care. I want a strong message that builds our brand, that provides some insight into who we are. I don't want to do something generic. If it doesn't excite me and get me fired up, I won't do it. That being said, if you go with OTT, terrestrial television, are you on YouTube? Are you using social media? Which social media channels? Even TV. What? There's hundreds of channels. It's a different game. I generally try to stick with sports and news for when we run on terrestrial TV, because that's where I believe our avatar watches TV. I don't think my avatar watches Judge Judy. I don't think my avatar watches soap operas. I need to create a message that will be strong and resonate with our avatar, but will also be displayed on the proper marketing channels where we think our avatar is hanging out.
Chris Dreyer:
Let's break that down a little bit. Some of the audience listening may like, what's John talking about an avatar here? We're demographic psychographics. What goes into that? Because I think that's critical because then you know where to advertise and get the most value for your dollars since it's so expensive. How did you go about it? What's that process in creating that avatar?
John Berry:
It's figuring out who our best clients are, right? We think about our 10 best clients over the past year. Where did they come from? Tell me about where they eat. Tell me about their family. Tell me about whether they have a religious preference, what that religious preference is. Tell me about whether they're Veterans, whether they have family members who are Veterans. What TV programs do they watch? What sports programs do they follow? Looking at all of that and saying, okay, so how do we create a message that resonates with these people. It doesn't convince them that we're not the right fit. We want to make sure that we're the right fit for them, and we know that that is going to turn off other people. I'm okay with that. We're pro Veteran. We're pro athlete. Look, we would rather represent the 42-year-old CFO who's in the car accident, who's got the three kids that he's trying to send through college than the 30-year-old kid who lives in his parents' basement and his fingers are stained with Cheetos dust from playing video games all day and eating Cheetos. Our avatar is, who do we want to represent? In my mind, I took this from Dan Sullivan, but who do you want to be a hero too? We get to decide who we're a hero to, and that's my avatar. Who do I want to represent? Who's my ideal client? I build my marketing message around that. Now, I could make it to encompass everyone, but I'm not afraid of alienating people who are not our avatar. I don't want everybody. I'd love to have all the Veterans and a lot of the athletes, but I don't want to keep everybody happy. That's not my role in life. My role is to find somebody that I want to be a hero to.
Chris Dreyer:
Before John became a lawyer, he had a long illustrious career in the military. He takes us on that journey and explains how The Warrior Ethos continues to guide his choices.
John Berry:
I was looking at West Point, and I was going to a military high school at the time. I had a cousin who was a naval officer, said, "You really need to check out William & Mary. They're always in the, now it's called FCS, but the Division I AA tournament every year." Great, great campus. I went and visited him and we went to the campus. I just fell in love with the campus and was playing football. I got injured pretty bad my sophomore year on the scout team. Then I knew I was going to have to sit out a year. I knew that I was going to become a lawyer, but I wanted a challenge first. I thought, gee, I've been always trying to eat seven meals a day, gain all this weight to, I was playing fullback at the time, gain all this muscle. I thought, what a challenge it would be to go through Army Ranger School and live on no sleep, no food. These guys are losing 40, 50 pounds in 63 days, pushing their bodies to limit. I'm like, that's the challenge that I want. That's what I did. I became an infantry officer, went through Ranger School, had a deployment to Bosnia in '99, came back. And then about 2000, I got out, went to law school, but I stayed in the National Guard. Deployed to Iraq in 2005, and ended up retiring as a lieutenant colonel. But the one thing I've always chased as a lawyer, as being that feeling of being a new second lieutenant. You're a brand new officer. Everybody's smarter than you. Everybody's got more experience, but you know you're part of the greatest organization in the world. It's mind-blowing to show up every day at 5:30 and everybody's fired up to go do physical training, and then we're going to work hard as a team all day. I've always wanted to recreate that. I think the military was part of something that's always been my family. My father served in Vietnam, wrote a book called Those Gallant Men: On Trial in Vietnam where he defended the commander of the 5th Special Forces in murder trials and successfully got the case dismissed. It was a big national case. I love the idea of supporting and defending the Constitution overseas, and now I get to do it every day with individual clients.
Chris Dreyer:
This Warrior Ethos is like it's so visible and so present. How do you describe this Warrior Ethos and how does it show up in your practice? How does that have impact your hiring with your team?
John Berry:
Generally, the way I see Warrior Ethos is, to quote Sylvester Stallone in Rocky, it's not how many times you get knocked down, it's how many times you get back up. I have a whole saying about our core values, which is it has to start with integrity. Integrity is what you do, what say you're going to do when you say you're going to do it. When you have integrity, then you must commit to your team. And when you commit, guess what happens? People hold you accountable, and you're accountable for that extreme ownership. Everything that happens in your world that you touch, you control it. Once you have all those, no doubt, Warrior Ethos comes along. That's where you're leading, and then you get kicked in the teeth and you get knocked down, and that's where you got to get back up. When you're doing that, you're leading by example, which is being the teammate that you want. Those are all five of our core values. But to touch on what Warrior Ethos really is, it's a team of soldiers kicking in a door to clear a building, where we've got everybody's back, we're coming in with all of our firepower, we're going all in, and we're not going to leave a fallen comrade. We know that no one's going to leave us behind, but we're going to accomplish this mission together. Warrior Ethos is not some dude in a loin cloth holding a sword. Warrior Ethos is a team of warriors fighting together, making sure we all get better every day.
Chris Dreyer:
I love the team component. When I think of leading and leading, saying leading, and no one likes to be managed, you're supervised, but they like to be led, leading by example. You're out on the front. It makes me think of that. On your site in terms of your positioning, it says, you have a team of attorneys, a team versus one attorney. How is that different? Is that just how you're internally structured? I've heard some individuals top down hierarchy, and then others do cross-functional pods. What's it look like in actually working up this case and working as a team internally?
John Berry:
I'll tell you this, as soon as I started teamwork in jury trials, I started winning a lot more. I noticed that was the biggest difference was teamwork. Now, we still will run a focus group, which requires teamwork, because we need teams to help us set it up, the logistics of a focus group, but always have co-counsel when you try a case. If you can't have co-counsel, the case may not be big enough for you. But I would say that in preparing the case, you need people who have strengths. I enjoy legal arguments, but I don't care about the black letter of the law like some people do, right? It's not my obsession. I'm here to win. For me, that's the excitement of the courtroom. I'm too old and fat to play football anymore. I can't jump out of airplanes, but by God, I can get in the courtroom and I can have that same experience. It's competitive and it's doing the same thing, protecting somebody's rights. I love to get into that, but I'm not great at everything. I tried a federal case in January of last year and I had a lawyer with me that did a phenomenal job on the legal side. It's kind of like Gerry Spence, every sidebar objection he had prepared. He was prepared for everything right before trial, and he just destroyed the opposition. They were no way prepared for this. My strengths were in the voir dire and opening statement and cross-examining the witnesses, but really letting him get in there and just tear apart the legal arguments. I think when you have a team approach, everybody has unique abilities, things we do better than everybody else, but nobody's the best at everything. I've tried a lot of cases with my wife, who's a phenomenal trial attorney. If I can work with someone who raises the energy level, I just become so much better. In my mind, if you have a team member, it's like you have higher level of accountability, but you also have this higher level of commitment, right? Because it's like, okay, we're committed to the client and we're committed to each other. We're in this case to win this case. I'm going to do whatever I can to help you. My expectation is that when I'm on the stage up there, you're helping me. I can't stress how important it is to have a team. If you can't focus on the most important thing that's going on right now, you're not going to be as good as the guy next to you who's completely focused. In my mind, it is all about focus and you cannot focus without a team. If you have a law firm, you got to grow it. You got to grow it so that you can have the support to be the best lawyer you can be, so that you're not doing all the stuff you're mediocre at just to run the firm. You're wasting time. I mean, think of the greatest athletes in the world. Do you think they sit around and do you think they make their own meals? No, they know they need to eat healthy, but they've got a trainer telling them what to eat. They've got somebody else making their meals, and they're showing up to compete every single day. That's my job as a lawyer for my clients is to show up and compete. Do I need to worry about payroll? No. If I'm a good enough lawyer, I should be able to pay someone to do that. I know that may sting for some people, but that's the way you got to think about it. If you want to be a great lawyer, you don't have to be a great businessman. Hire a great law firm administrator and then graduate and hire a great COO. But if you want to be a great lawyer, you need discipline and you need focus, and you can't focus when you're doing everything.
Chris Dreyer:
John has 2,000 plus reviews across his firms. He explains why reviews play a critical role in success of his firm.
John Berry:
In 2016, I'm at AVO and I'm listening to this thing about reviews and how important reviews are. I'm like, okay, this is garbage. I'm learning, okay, well, this is kind of crowdsourcing information and there's the Amazon effect. And then I go back and it's like looking in the mirror and I see our reviews. I'm like, wait a minute, I got a two-star review from this guy. I got him over $100,000 back pay award from the VA and he's saying it took too long. The realization was that, no, that actually we got it to him quicker than most people, but he had no frame of reference. The thought is by getting these reviews, people will know. I said, okay, we're going to consciously ask for reviews. It's uncomfortable, but I love being uncomfortable. That's just part of our culture that we're going to provide five star service. I'll tell somebody during initial consultation, look, we intend to provide five star service. At any point, if we fail to get you what you believe to be five star services, you tell us. We will gladly have that conversation with you. But I do think that it keeps the team accountable. Look, every single day, all the reviews at the end of the day get emailed to the entire team. We got about 110 team members. They all see all the reviews. We let clients know we are going to ask for a review. Now, the other part of it was with our Veterans disability practice, because it's a contingency practice, just like PI, we would see... Veterans are very loyal. We would see people come in and they'd bring us stuff from their garden, or they would send us long thank you notes, like pages, of what we did for them, or they'd send us baked goods. I thought, well, gee, we got all these great stories, but we're not sharing them with the team, and we're not sharing them with the public. I said, well, if we just ask for the reviews, what's going to happen? We had Veterans that were like, "Yeah, absolutely. I would love to write a review. I would love to tell my story."Some of them were even like... This is important to me because we have, people say it's 22, it's more than 22 Veterans a day commit suicide. We've had Veterans come to us and say, "I was going to kill myself. I had no money, no hope, no help from the VA, and you guys convinced to take this battle seriously. You told me you'd do the fighting for me." I'm like, great, put that in a review. Let's share that with other Veterans. While we have some Veterans and some of our personal injury clients who want to keep things very quiet, I understand that and I completely respect that, we have several who want to tell their story, who kind of are almost like apostles, right? They're like, "We want to spread the good word of Berry Law. Because had they not helped me, I couldn't have done what I did." Some of them go on to build businesses and do amazing things. Now they have some money. Now they have some treatment. Now they have some resources. Once I started going after the reviews, the clients were like, "Well, what about testimonial videos? I'd love to do a video. I would love to tell my story to the world so that I can help more Veterans get the benefits that they've earned."
Chris Dreyer:
One of the things I love about this is when you are sharing this with your team, it gives them a purpose, like a why, because it has meaning. There are so many attorneys that I speak to, they really struggle and pay for the reviews and they try to add it to the processes, but I think what you really rings true, is you share the reviews and then they get to read those stories and it brings meaning to their job.
John Berry:
Yeah, yeah. Look, it's a KPI for the attorneys. We expect you to get reviews. If you don't want to ask for reviews and be uncomfortable, this might not be the right place for you. As attorneys, we can't accept extravagant gifts, but we can accept a review. The review lives on forever. To me, that's one of the greatest gifts, only second to a referral, right? Referrals and reviews. I think of the Disney World effect, where people go to Disney World and they take a bunch of pictures. Even though it's hot and there's long lines and the kids are crying and everybody's sticky from all the ice cream, they look back at the pictures and they say, "But that was a great experience. I'd go there again."We have about 40 Veterans on our team, 20 of them are Marines. It's like, I got to talk to a fellow Marine that walked the same streets of Iraq as me. It's like, this was such a great experience. They write all that down, and that's what they remember. Now, not only does it help us, but for them for their trauma and just from the bad experiences they had with the VA or whatever. They now have a positive experience in their mind, and they've written about it, and that's going to stay in their mind longer. It turns a very negative experience into a positive one.
Chris Dreyer:
Putting that pen to paper. When you have these evangelists and they have these experiences that they remember when they write or do the video, that then it's easier for them to share and talk to maybe their colleagues or peers that have a similar situation. That's one side of referrals, but let's talk about the peer referrals. What's your view on garnering those peer referrals?
John Berry:
Our state bar rules do not allow for referral fees, so we're in a different position than a lot of law firms. We don't see a lot of PI referrals, but I have had some from my peers. I would say your best source is your law school classmates. I was amazed once the billboards went up, most of the contacts I was getting, it was mostly people I knew in the community, who either knew me through the military, the National Guard, or through law school. They were all reaching out saying, "Hey, I was just thinking about, I got this case." While we don't do referral fees, there have been some pretty big cases where we've said, "I want to partner with you in this case."Now, we have also had cases where it's like, okay, even if it's an injury case, this isn't the right case for us. This isn't our avatar. We're happy to refer that to somebody else. When you refer a case to somebody, you're lending them your credibility. It's usually reciprocal, right? Referrals are king. You want referrals. There's nothing better than a referral from a peer. Because a referral from a lawyer is a pre-sold case, right? By the time they come to you, hey, it's not about whether you're a good lawyer, it's about whether you gave them great client or customer service.
Chris Dreyer:
It's just the way that people make this buying decisions now. Like you said, they may find you on Google or a billboard, but then they're going to go to your social media, they're going to go watch your YouTube videos, they're going to read your reviews, then it's like an attribution nightmare. Then it comes in and it says Google SEO and all the SEO people are happy. But in reality, they might have originated from the billboard.
John Berry:
Our intake or sales team, the first question is always, who referred you to us? Because inevitably what happens is we get the, "Well, I found you on Google." That was the response. Then I talk to them, I said, "What do you mean you found?" "Well, I went to Google." "Well, how did you know to look for us?" "Oh, my dad told me to go find you guys and give you a call." I said, "Well, that's a referral." Now I got to train our sales team on what's a referral, I got to train our lawyers on what's a referral, but we have to ask that question, who referred you to us as opposed to just sitting back and hoping that the attribution is right, because that is the scariest part of marketing. You're spending money everywhere, and usually there's things you can do that... All the ships rise as you spend more money. We had an issue with Facebook where our Facebook Ads went down for six weeks. Guess what? We didn't see a change. We thought we were going to see a dip. There was no dip. We said, all other spend being the same, is this something we want to continue to do? I think it's tough. Look, when you start out, I would say when you're under $1 million for a firm, you want to do as much direct response marketing as you can. If you can track the SEO, if you can track the PPC, if you can track your newsletter or whatever you're sending out, do that. But then once you get to eight figures, once you get above $10 million, you're playing the branding game. It's a scarier game because you can't figure out where all that money's going. All you see is that lift. All of a sudden, you're doing the branding, the TV commercials, the billboard, the radio. It's going up, and it may still be coming through the PPC channel, or it may still be coming through SEO, but how do they know to look for your firm? We find now that we spend a lot more money on branding that our advertiser dollars in branding translate to Google searches of Berry Law.
Chris Dreyer:
It does have that rising tides effect. If you're going to do SEO, you got the branded searches, people are going to click on your results more and maybe click on your Google Ads more. It all has this multiplying impact. I've heard Chris Walker talk about, hey, put on your form, how did you hear about us? Just let them type it in. Sometimes they'll tell a story. Over time you get to see trends. You get to uncover more information. I think that's why your, who referred us to you, then you're going to get that same type of information. It's like a similar tactic, but very powerful.
John Berry:
I got great respect for Chris Walker, the things he's done. I wholeheartedly disagree. When you do that free text, it's not as searchable. It's a lot more work than if you have a dropdown menu. I think it's easier when you give the dropdown, the choices. I don't like the free text anymore, just because I've learned the importance of having good structured data and that has really been a game changer. We've lost a lot of opportunities because we did too much freeform on our intake software.
Chris Dreyer:
Nice. I love it. I love it. Let's talk about your book. You got a book book coming out, Veteran Led Military Leadership Lessons to Help Your Company Survive, Thrive, and Dominate. What's the book about? What inspired you to write it, and when's it going to hit the shelves? Do you have a release date?
John Berry:
I mean, this is not your typical military I'm going to tell you how to be hard and tough. It's about the simple leadership lessons that all Veterans learn going through as a new member of the military. What I really wanted to do was to help our Veteran community get out in the business world. I think if you look at small business is the backbone of America, the non-commissioned officer is the backbone of the military, and they know how to execute. Look, anybody can plan, plans become fantasies and dreams, but military members have been trained how to execute. A lot of the skills that they have, they don't understand, they're immediately transferrable. And that's what I'm trying to communicate to that to the military community is you've got what it takes. Go out and do this. We've had so many great stories from clients. One of them, he's 100% disabled, he started a CrossFit gym. You know what? He got other disabled Veterans to start coming here. I went there one morning. 5:00 AM I'm showing up. There are soldiers who are amputees who are working out. What's your excuse? I'm like, oh man, these guys are getting after it. There's all these Veterans that we've helped over the years that have said, "Look, now that I have my benefits, now that I'm getting my education, now that I have some money coming in, I want to do more, and I want to do something in my community." They'll give back to non-profits and stuff, but what's next? I'm like, well, build a business. That's what America was founded on, that small business. I said, "You do that, you're going to be two times a citizen. Go out there. Do it again." For most Veterans, we took an oath, and we still want to support and defend the constitution. We still want to help our communities. In my mind, that's through the small business community. I want to get more Veterans out there. Because here's the deal, we come back from service and you hear a lot about PTSD and some of the mental health conditions. Well, the problem is you came back, your life had a purpose in the military. You had a team that would die for you. You come back, there's no mission. The team's gone. You're back in ordinary life. You're working an 8:00 to 5:00 job when you used to be 24/7. It's just the excitement isn't there, the rush isn't there, the team isn't there, the purpose isn't there. I want to give that back.
Chris Dreyer:
I can't wait to read it. John, this has been absolutely fantastic. I got one final question. What's next for Berry Law and where can people go to learn more?
John Berry:
I think our involvement in the Veteran community on a national scale. I've seen the Veteran community is fractured. The last election, nobody cared about the Veteran's voice. We heard about all these other groups. The bigger picture for Berry Law is in our service to our Veteran community. Yes, we still support and defend the constitution. We will continue to grow in areas of personal injury and criminal defense because that's where the constitutional warriors show up to fight every day.
Chris Dreyer:
Thanks so much to John Berry at Berry Law Firm for everything he shared today. Let's hit the PIM Points for today. PIM Point number one, to determine your avatar or ideal client, look to the 10 best cases you had in the past year. When you put them all together, what are the common threads? Where do they eat? What sports are they into? What brands do they like? Then create a message that would speak to that specific person.
John Berry:
Where did they come from? Tell me about where they eat. Tell me about their family. Tell me about whether they have a religious preference, what that religious preference is. Tell me about whether they're Veterans, whether they have family members who are Veterans. What TV programs do they watch? What sports programs do they follow? Looking at all of that and saying, okay, so how do we create a message that resonates with these people? We want to make sure that we're the right fit for them, and we know that that is going to turn off other people. I'm okay with that.
Chris Dreyer:
PIM Point number two, potential clients need social proof. It might be difficult to attribute where the lead came from, that it's worth the time and effort. Even people who get referred will look to Google Reviews and social to get their questions answered.
John Berry:
Referrals are king. You want referrals. There's nothing better than a referral from a peer, because a referral from a lawyer is a pre-sold case, right? By the time they come to you, hey, it's not about whether you're a good lawyer, it's about whether you gave them great client or customer service.
Chris Dreyer:
PIM Point number three, measure it, track it, share it, and change it. John is so transparent about the reviews that he emails everyone on staff a roundup of the reviews for the day. This transparency keeps everyone accountable and puts five star service at the center of their decision-making.
John Berry:
This is kind of crowdsourcing information, then I see our reviews. I'm like, wait a minute, I got a two star review from this guy. I got him over $100,000 back pay award from the VA, and he's saying it took too long. The realization was that, no, that actually we got into him quicker than most people, but he had no frame of reference. The thought is by getting these reviews, people will know. I said, okay, we're going to consciously ask for reviews. It's uncomfortable, but I love being uncomfortable. That's just part of our culture, that we are going to provide five star service. I'll tell somebody during initial consultation, "Look, we intend to provide five star service. At any point, if we fail to get you what you believe to be five star services, you tell us. We will gladly have that conversation with you." But I do think that it keeps the team accountable. Look, every single day, all the reviews at the end of the day get emailed to the entire team speak. We got about 110 team members. They all see all the reviews. We let clients know we are going to ask for a review.
Chris Dreyer:
I'm Chris Dreyer. Thanks for listening to Personal Injury Mastermind. If you made it this far, it's time to pay the tax. No, I'm not talking about taking your cash like Big G. I'm asking you for a five star review on Apple or Spotify. Leave me a review and I'll forever be grateful. If this is your first episode, welcome and thanks for hanging out. Come back each week for fresh interviews where you can hear from those making it rain. And remember, guys, ssh, do not share this episode with anyone.
