Chad Celi:
The word intake immediately lowers your positioning on who they're talking to and we're trying to be the case consultant, right?
Chris Dreyer:
Welcome to Personal Injury Mastermind. I'm your host, Chris Dreyer, founder and CEO of Rankings.io, the legal marketing company the best firms hire when they want the rankings traffic in cases other law firm marketing agencies can't deliver. Do me a favor and hit that follow button right now to subscribe. You'll be the first to get every new episode delivered straight to you the moment it drops, giving you the edge.
On these special toolkit episodes, we dive deep into conversations with the leading vendors in the legal sphere, the masterminds behind the technologies, services and strategies to help law firms not just survive, but thrive in today's competitive landscape. This is Toolkit Thursday on PIM, your weekly guide to staying sharp in the legal world. Let's get started. Chad Celi, aka Chad GPT is a master of marketing. His agency is founded on principal's learn from the legendary Jay Abraham and has worked with over 119 industries and with some of the biggest names in the PI space, including Mike Morse and Darryl Isaacs.
In this power packed interview, Chad shares his insights on avoiding marketing malpractice, rebranding your intake team for success and leveraging the power reviews. Chad also shares practical tips on optimizing your intake language, getting more reviews and using personalization to create a referral machine. If you're looking to level up your firm's marketing game, this is an episode you won't want to miss. Here's Chad Celi on how he got linked up with the highest paid consultant of all time, Jay Abraham.
Chad Celi:
I read his book and just was inspired by him and I had the good fortune of being able to make a personal connection with him through an ad that he had seen. I did a business first ad, was a Bentley challenge. We had a company Bentley Flying Spur at the time, and we placed an ad that said, "We'll cover $10 million of lost revenue or I'll give you my Bentley." And we had sent him the ad, the risk reversal, and he called me on my cell phone and connected and we ended up doing a barter deal where we bartered the Bentley Flying Spur for him to mentor us for a year. So that's how it all started. But I owe so much of my success to Jay Abraham. He's a wonderful inspiration and a big part of how I've helped, not only personal injury firms, but other types of companies grow.
Chris Dreyer:
That's amazing. And I like that the risk reversal, the reducing your customer's risk to zero got his attention. How has this applied to the PI space for a situation that operates off a contingency? You see the language, "You only pay if we win," and those types of statements. So everyone is already doing some component of that. Is there more to it that makes the offer better?
Chad Celi:
Well, I would say my greatest weakness on the agency side of working with so many different industries became my greatest asset in working with personal injury firms. So what I mean by that is all my experience in working with various industries, different marketing tactics, sales approaches, mindset psychology, I was able to bring that into the personal injury space and basically help apply those marketing principles. And at its foundation, it comes down to one word, which is leverage.
You can find so many ways to leverage and get more out of everything you're doing by optimizing the words that you use, even. So let's say you're spending the same amount of dollars on, let's say, a TV commercial, right? But for that same ad dollars that you're spending, you could make it more memorable and have more people respond. So more people are coming to your website. Then you can optimize your website and have more people contact you, more leads, more prospects. Then you can optimize the words you use in intake and that conversion and the follow-up process to get more signups. Then you can optimize the experience or how many reviews you get from every person by how you ask. And we can go through some of these individual tactics, but you can get more referrals out of your database. So for the same number of ad dollars, you can create a lot more leverage without spending any more dollars on advertising.
Chris Dreyer:
I think that's brilliant. I've said this recently a lot of times pick the channel and then it's like an afterthought with a copy and the creative for what you're saying. It's so incredibly important. You've worked in the PI space with the likes of Jacoby & Meyers, Mike Morse, Gordon McKernan, Richard Harris, Daryl Isaacs. Every one of those names are behemoths in the space. When it comes to the challenges and changes that you've seen in the personal injury space, what are just some of the things in the last five to 10 years that you've seen relating to marketing and client acquisition?
Chad Celi:
Well, I would say there's actually been a few observations that I've noticed specifically for personal injury law firms that are unique to this industry, in comparison to other industries I've worked with. And I actually consider these very expensive marketing malpractice decisions. So everyone knows of medical malpractice, these are the marketing malpractice principles, very unique to the personal injury space. So number one, I would say in most industries that spend a lot of money on marketing and advertising and branding and creative, there is a ton of energy and time and effort and thought that goes into the brand, the name of the company, the name of the product, unique to this industry, almost by default people are using their last name. Now that could be good or bad news, depending on what your last name is. And what I noticed is there is, I would say, proportionally very little thought that goes into, okay, we've got a new partner, add another last name. And then you end up with three last names that are difficult to pronounce, difficult to repeat, and it's difficult on the prospect's brain to remember that brand.
So right out of the gate, it's incredibly expensive if you screw this part up and you choose a brand name that makes all of your marketing and advertising more expensive. So that's one thing very unique to this industry. Procter & Gamble can spend $17 million coming up with a brand name for one product and a law firm that's getting ready to spend several million dollars is like, "Okay, we're going to use our last name, let's go with it." So that's one unique marketing malpractice.
Another one is when other industries are spending a lot of money on marketing and advertising and generating new leads and acquisition, they correlate that investment to the sales funnel. In this industry, I feel like there's a disproportionate level of attention paid to the sales funnel. It's like, okay, we're going to spend a few million dollars, and we're going to, I don't want to say be lackadaisical about intake, but we're going to hire someone who has no sales experience. We're not going to offer any scripting or training or surveillance. We have no idea what they're saying on the phone. And if I went to a company and said, "Hey, you've got an employee that stole a 5,000 piece of equipment," it would be a big deal. But yet I find firms that can have someone answering the phones that would lose a case every week.
So there's a lot of opportunity there in that sales funnel that should be proportionate to the marketing. If you're going to spend $1 million, you want to know what's happening with your conversions and sales. So there's a lot that could be done there. One other, I would say, pattern I noticed with personal injury firms, and I feel like this is a disservice to them, they want to stand out. You might be listening to this and say, "Yeah, I want to differentiate. I want stand out for my competitors." What ends up happening is you're creating a new website or a new campaign, and then some marketer will say to you, "Okay, well tell me about yourself. How are you different?" And there's confusion between what I would say company values and points of differentiation. So it's very expensive. If you think you're different and you come out and say, "Oh, well, we care and we offer personal attention." Those aren't market differentiators, those are personal values. So I think sometimes people are making their marketing more expensive by thinking those are differentiators when they're not.
Chris Dreyer:
A lot of times those are table stakes, right? You expect to be treated with care.
Chad Celi:
Exactly.
Chris Dreyer:
Yeah, I see the name situation. For myself, even having guests on the podcast sometimes and I want to be respectful. And it's like, okay, go Google how to pronounce this. And it's like that's the name of their firm. And I'm like, okay, I'm going the extra mile doing this to be respectful and how many consumers just have no idea and they're like, ah. Versus a very simple trade name that's memorable. And I know that that's been ... and different states have been slower to adopt that. New Jersey was slower to adopt the trade names than others, but I couldn't agree more.
I will say the one thing that I see on the names is if you are just a sledgehammer, killer trial attorney, Mark Lanier, those types of individuals, their name just carries so much weight amongst their peers and their peers would know them. So I think you're marketing to a different individual. You offer two unique workshops. You have one on intake and one on reviews, and we set the tone on intake, but give me a breakdown of this workshop, the intake words to lose, words to use, what goes into a big picture and maybe a nugget, maybe a tactic that our audience can use.
Chad Celi:
Most intake departments, again, they're spending lots of money on marketing and advertising and there's a lot of overconfidence. And I want to share, before I get into some specific tactical language that they could use, I want to share why there's so much overconfidence in the intake department. In this environment, most people don't call 10 different places. They don't want to. This is a very unique situation that they're going through, and 70% to 80% of the people that call you are a lay down. They've already decided if you're going to help them with their case, they're going to move forward. So what ends up happening is we get overconfident because if you talk to someone in intake, they're like, "We don't have a problem with diversion. Most people just move forward."
Yeah, if you just want to be mediocre, that's fine, but if you want to go from good to great, you got to know there's 10% to 20% of people that are on the fence that could be shopping around. And if you don't build their confidence during that call, it just gives them a reason to have doubt and they can easily call someone else. So it's about building confidence, but often what you notice with intake training is it's too elusive and in the clouds and theoretical for them to apply what to actually say on the phone. Okay, control the call, build confidence, show empathy. And most people don't necessarily know how to translate that into actual words. So I'll give you a few quick tactical examples. Number one is you should immediately eliminate the word intake. Client facing, I've never heard someone call and say, "Yeah, this is John. I was injured in an accident yesterday. Could you transfer me to your intake department?" And the word intake immediately lowers your positioning on who they're talking to and we're trying to be the case consultant.
So you want to eliminate that and you can replace it with, I'm a case evaluator, I'm a case consultant, I'm a case investigator, right? But you never want to say, "Let me transfer you to the intake specialist." Another simple one would be not using the phrase, "I don't know," and simply replacing it with, "That's a great question." "Oh, how long is my case going to take or what's my case value?" "Well, I don't know. There's a lot of variables," versus giving them a compliment, boosting that confidence and saying, "That's a great question. There's a lot of variables and I don't want to do you a disservice by making up some random number, and I think you're entitled to the most accurate information." So again, you can see the words you use can have an impact immediately on whether or not they have confidence.
Even telling them early in on the call that, "You've reached the right person, I can help you." A lot of times people are asking, when they first get on the phone, "Can you help me with my situation?" And if you don't give them an answer quickly, you're just allowing them to have this lingering doubt like, oh, I wonder if I'm getting it transferred. I wonder if this person can actually help me with my slip and fall case or this dog bite case. So it may sound very simple and nuanced, but just telling them, "Well, you've reached the right person. I can help you. I'm a case evaluator. Let's talk through your case and see if we can help," those little things. Another tactical thing is you want to eliminate the word contract, right? That's an intimidating word, and you can replace that with agreement or, my preference, paperwork. We're going to authorize paperwork rather than sign the contract.
Chris Dreyer:
Those are all gold. When I was thinking about it is, I think you probably have experienced this a ton just from listening to so many calls, there's this scenario where the firm doesn't accept their case, right? Maybe it's outside their jurisdiction, maybe it's a different area of the law. What are maybe some of the tactics they could use to, say, politely decline? Because that's where a lot of individuals get those one star reviews.
Chad Celi:
Yeah, no, that's a great question. And I would say one of the most common calls I hear are rejection calls. They have an accident, they have no injuries and it's just property damage and they're handled very poorly. And you have to realize that prospects and people calling the law firm, they're very sensitive and when people believe they're going through a situation and they feel that it's a valid situation, that rejection really hurts them. So number one, and we can borrow this from the company Apple that does music and technology, they realized that when people went to the Genius bar and said the word unfortunately, there was a negative visceral reaction. So they spent over $1 million researching what to replacement word or phrase for the word unfortunately and came up with, actually, a phrase 'as it turns out.'.
So right now, if you're listening, your intake department is probably rejecting people by saying, "Unfortunately we can't take your case." "Unfortunately, you don't have a case." "Unfortunately, we don't handle property damage." "Unfortunately, there's nothing we can do," versus starting with, "As it turns out, we specialize on the injury portion of the claim." "As it turns out, we've got a great referral partner that can help you with your type of case." "As it turns out, let me get your email address and I can send you a cheat sheet on property damage," right? You want to be the resource because if they leave feeling rejected, they're never going to refer anyone to you and they won't call you back.
That's one thing, using that phrase, but also being that resource with giving them a guide or telling them how to search on Google for a solution. And one other quick tactic is making sure that you recap why they called so they really feel heard. "Okay, Chris, so you're calling about a situation with your landlord and you feel like there was no running hot water and you're calling about whether or not you're able to have a case. Is that right?" And you want them to say, "Yes, that's right. That's why I called." What happens now is you reject them too quickly and they want to give you their life story over and over again for 12 minutes because they believe that you don't really understand, that you haven't heard them. So those are a few quick tips there.
Chris Dreyer:
I think those are amazing, and I think I'm going to direct people right to this. All of our clients that are, I think any one of those could enhance their intake substantially. The other workshop you have is on reviews and the importance of reviews has just increased exponentially. It's got the social proof component. You rank for the superlatives in the Map Pack, it's component of LSA, local service ads, of the Google Maps rankings, all these components, and you have this workshop called Review Reset. So tell me a little bit that workshop and maybe, same thing, I'll give you the open mic, maybe a tactic there that you could share.
Chad Celi:
Sure. And this is another area that I'm super passionate about and I feel like it's often undervalued. Sometimes it may just because there's not advertising dollars involved. So I think there's a lot of personal injury attorneys that know that they need reviews and they want them, but again, they have to give it more thought and intention behind the approach. Because I've worked with many different law firms, I want to share these numbers to give some perspective. You should, at minimum, be able to have 50% of all of your clients give a review successfully. And I've seen many firms go as high as 80%. So you can run some quick math. If you are signing up 100 cases a month, you should know that you should be getting at least 50 reviews successfully. Now, most firms aren't that, and the main reason is because of how they ask.
So number one, there's, I would say, a myth about reviews that you need to wait until the settlement. It's like, oh, it's the end of the case and it's three years later, two years later. That's a waste of time, okay, you're working harder than you have to. You're driving into your own traffic. You want to find people in the peak of their experience, which is actually typically in the first couple of months, right? Where you're starting to work on their case, you're communicating, they feel like you're taking care of them. You don't need to overthink it. People give reviews today after going to restaurant for 10 minutes. So basically, you find a way to engineer a positive comment. "Oh, hey Chris, just finishing up here. Do you feel like I've taken good care of you?" Now, if I answered all your questions, you get a little positive comment and that transitions into the ask.
But I want to share one of, I would say, the biggest secrets to going from asking someone to actually having a successful review on Google because I think a lot of people listening this go, "Yeah, we're asking people but they're not leaving the review, "and that's because of the moving parade of life. You ask them, they're somewhat satisfied, they say yes, and then they go check 17 emails and pick up their son or daughter and they've forgotten about you, right? This isn't a priority. So the key is getting a verbal commitment on when the review is going to happen. So if I was on the phone with you, Chris, and you already said, "Yeah, I could give you a review Chad." I say, "Oh, thanks Chris. That means a lot, and I know Darryl Isaacs is really going to appreciate it as well, and he's for that later tonight. Hey, by the way, is there any chance you could do that when we get off the phone?" Or, "Is it possible that you could do this by the end of the day?"
Chris Dreyer:
Two micro commitments and a time constraint. I like that.
Chad Celi:
There you go, right? And what happens is once they give you that verbal commitment, people like to be consistent with what they say and what they authorize. So that verbal commitment drastically increases the chance that they're actually going to do it that day. And if it doesn't happen that day, the chance of it happening goes down significantly. So getting that verbal commitment on when it's going to happen will drastically increase those reviews. And if you're not getting a lot of reviews, a lot of times it's just because people aren't asking enough as well.
Chris Dreyer:
The thing I love about the micro commitment is basically you're getting permission to follow up too. So then you can go into that cadence, the text, the call, the email, and they have already given you permission to do that, which I love every bit of that.
Chad Celi:
There's actually, to your point about the permission of follow up, if someone does verbally and say, "Oh yeah, I could do that when we get off the phone, no problem," right? Guess what you do 10 minutes later. A text message that's assumptive. Thanks again for the review. And then one of two things is happening. Either one, they haven't done it yet and that's a professional reminder or two, they've already done it and you just said thank you again.
Chris Dreyer:
That's fantastic. Let's talk about the solo practitioner. What's the balance here between an individual that has a case versus maybe an individual that's experienced the firm. There's murky type of language on what is a client, right? Who's this for and how do you just get more volume of opportunities?
Chad Celi:
Yeah, another good question because, especially for smaller firms and when it comes to the value of reviews, again, it comes down to that leverage and how do we create more volume. So who should be asking are the people with what's called the primary relationship. And it may not be the attorney, it might be a case manager, paralegal. So when I do workshops, it's typically with the case managers, the people that can make a personal ask because people don't want to give reviews for companies. They don't care about your law firm, they don't care about your marketing budget. If you have someone who has a personal connection that's been helping with a case, they want to do it because of a personal favor, not to help out some law firm.
So that's a lot of leverage there, having the right person ask. But in creating volume, in addition to consistently making it a priority in your culture to ask these people, you can also, one other great thing, and Mike Morse has done an excellent job of this as well, but when you have events legally, someone doesn't need to be a client to give you a review. And when you do an event, whether it's a backpack giveaway or giving away turkeys or what have you, that's another great opportunity to have a review crew and go ask people for reviews.
Now, I know when it comes to the algorithm, if you have people that are talking about something totally unrelated to personal injury, it may not help as much for the algorithm, but you can ask people to mention if they had a case or some keywords. But overall, the reviews come down to you want a decent star rating, 4.7, 4.8, 4.9, that sweet spot. And ideally, your goal is to double the number of reviews from your closest competitor. These decisions happen in a small little space on that map, and it's the glance generation. So they're going to be looking at how many reviews you have and your star rating, and they're not spending 27 minutes reading every review. So the volume is critical there.
Chris Dreyer:
That's fantastic. And as an SEO guy, if the client has double their reviews than their competitors, I'd be really happy from that front because, because most of it, because quantity and quality. So the rating are ranking factors for maps and just the number of reviews for LSA. So it helps out your strategic partner as well. During our research, it said you were a Mensa member. So tell me about that experience. How did you get into that? Just tell me briefly about that.
Chad Celi:
Number one, I would say one of the worst decisions I've ever made was sharing with my wife that I joined Mensa at an early age, the high IQ society, because literally every time I screw something up or forget something, she'll take a jab, you know Mensa. I don't know, I feel like I've been incredibly lucky and blessed to work with some great clients. Really the secret has been learning from other successful marketers, other industries and then successfully applying that. So the talent of transferability and being able to ask high quality questions.
Even people listening to this podcast or your podcast and all these great people that you have on that are much smarter than me, asking how can I apply this? It's giving some thought and attention behind things that can go a long way. And again, there's just, especially when you're spending a lot of marketing dollars and this is a high ticket, high cost environment, you want to get everything you can out of all that leverage, out of everything that you're doing. I would say one other thing that has been incredibly powerful, and I've had a lot of experience with this in the personal entry space, is leveraging the most powerful word in the English language, which of course is a person's name. So being able to personalize and find ways to personalize things that you do will go a long way in creating more of a referral culture. And I would say that's been another underappreciated opportunity for PI firms.
Oftentimes, they spend a lot of money on acquiring the relationship, work really hard on the case, and then the case is settled and it's like the end of the relationship. Even the psychology, and this is going to sound, again, small and nuanced, but at the end of the settlement you might have someone say, "Well, Chris, tell us what could we do better? Where could we improve?" And then what does the mind do? It immediately thinks about what went wrong versus you could flip that psychology and you could say, "Okay, Chris, was there anything you really liked about your experience with our law firm?" And then the mind thinks about what they really liked, so that leaves a positive impression. So again, there's all these little nuances and psychology factors, but when it comes back to personalization, there's a couple personalization tactics. I've had a lot of success with. The gratitude books, sending someone a book with their name on the cover and then there's a video technology I use to insert someone's name into a welcome video or a birthday video, their name on the cake or different use cases.
Chris Dreyer:
That's fantastic, Chad. One final question here. Where can our audience go to connect with you and just learn more?
Chad Celi:
Well, I'm actually fairly private and I only work by referral only. So if you email me at chad@chadgpt.law in the subject line, you could say, "I know Dreyer," so I know that you're listening here. So yeah, you can email me and find me there.
Chris Dreyer:
Thanks to Chad for all his insights today. Let's recap. Avoid the trinity of marketing malpractice. One trade names that are hard to remember. Embrace the power of a memorable brand name. Craft a trade name that not only reflects your firm's identity, but also sticks in the minds of your potential clients. A name that they'll remember when they need you most. Two, spending on marketing but not intake. Maximize your marketing ROI by investing in your intake team. Your intake specialists are the face of your firm, the first point of contact for your leads. Empower them with the tools, training and support they need to convert those leads and assign clients. Marketing brings them in, but intake seals the deal. Three, mistaking core values for unique selling propositions or USPs. Establish a strong differentiator for your firm. While your core values are the heart of your firm, your USP is what sets you apart in the minds of the clients. Identify what truly makes you unique in the market and infuse that into every aspect of your brand and messaging. Stand out and watch your firm thrive.
Chad Celi:
I actually consider these very expensive marketing malpractice decisions unique to this industry. So I think sometimes people are making their marketing more expensive.
Chris Dreyer:
Rebrand for the win. When I say intake, you know what I'm talking about. The average person has no idea what an intake person is, what they do, let alone how they can solve their problem. Renaming the frontline team to something recognizable, like case specialist, helps orient your lead. Create a standard language for your team. Little psychological tweaks can turn a rejection call into a positive review.
Chad Celi:
The word intake immediately lowers your positioning on who they're talking to and we're trying to be the case consultant. So you want to eliminate that and you can replace it with, I'm a case evaluator, I'm a case consultant, I'm a case investigator. Another tactical thing is you want to eliminate the word contract. That's an intimidating word, and you can replace that with agreement or, my preference, paperwork.
Chris Dreyer:
Reviews, reviews, reviews. Guys, you can't sleep on this. Don't wait until the settlement checks clear to ask for them. Strike while the iron's hot couple months into the case. You've got to get that verbal commitment on when they'll write the review. Have your case managers and paralegals and the ones that have those personal relationships make the ask. Reviews are worth their weight in gold and are well worth your time to get them.
Chad Celi:
Ideally, your goal is to double the number of reviews from your closest competitor. I mean, these decisions happen in a small little space on that map, and it's the glance generation. So they're going to be looking at how many reviews you have and your star rating, and they're not spending 27 minutes reading every review. So the volume is critical there.
Chris Dreyer:
All right everybody, that's it for today. I hope we added a few more tools to your kit. For more about Chad, head over to the show notes. Before you go, do me a solid and smash that follow button, subscribe if you haven't already, I'd sincerely appreciate it. I know you won't want to miss out on the next episode. Thanks for listening to Personal Injury Mastermind with me, Chris Dreyer, founder and CEO of Rankings.io. Catch you next time. I'm out.
