Suzanna Abrahamian:
You've got to understand what is going to work for you.
Chris Dreyer:
Tap into what you know. Leverage your relationships to start the firm of your dreams.
Suzanna Abrahamian:
We could have so many clients, but they only have one attorney. What do they expect from you?
Chris Dreyer:
Welcome to Personal True Mastermind. I'm your host, Chris Dreyer, Founder and CEO of Rankings.io. The no excuses, no BS, legal marketing agency that works harder than the competition. Each week you get insights and wisdom from some of the best in the industry. Hit that follow button so that you never miss an episode. All right, let's dive in.
Competence comes from practice and repetition. Competence turns into confidence and confidence acts as the foundation to build the firm of your dreams. Suzanna Abrahamian has done that work, put in the hours and fully owns her capabilities. A personal injury rising star, she has recovered over $83 million for her clients. Over the past 10 years, she's got those reps in and learned to manage the firm along the way. Feeling the call to go out on her own, she was able to stand firmly on the steady foundation of confidence she has built over the years. Today she offers great insights on starting a firm. She explains how she tapped into her sphere of influence to get initial clients, how to look for opportunities in underserved practice areas and the importance of opening up communication with clients. Here's Suzanna Abrahamian, founder of Suzanna Abrahamian Law Firm.
Suzanna Abrahamian:
A lot of us venture out into the practice of law for a reason. Some might do it just because family members are attorneys, my dad wanted me to become an attorney, I want to make money and so forth. The reason for me was more personal. So I am a first generation immigrant. I was born and raised in Armenia. I have a very close-knit family, I have a younger brother who's also an attorney, David, and my mom and my dad. So we came to the United States when I was 11 years old, started off fifth grade, didn't know a word in English, it was my third language actually. So here I am learning my ways and my family instilled in me that, "You're going to work hard, this is an amazing country, we brought you here because you could achieve anything you want to achieve in this world."
So hardworking student, getting the perfect grades and so forth. I remember this day extremely well, sitting in 12th grade, getting another award when I got a call that my dad was involved in a horrible accident. He was 40 years old, Chris, he was a truck driver. He left the house that day to go make a living for his family and he never came back. I never saw him, didn't get to say goodbye to my dad and that paved the road for me to do what I do today. I knew I was going to be an attorney, I knew I was going to go to law school and I was going to represent the injured individuals and I was going to do nothing but plaintiff's work. It just paved the road for me, Chris. It was set in stone. It was one of those moments in life, those pivotal moments where you know your reason, you know your why, and now you have to do it.
Chris Dreyer:
Thank you for sharing that. And I tend to get emotional on these things and forgive me here. So you knew right away, "Hey, I'm going to law school. I'm going to be a plaintiff attorney, I'm going to be a PI attorney." Did you find that with that intention that it sets you up a little bit different in law school? Just in the law school itself?
Suzanna Abrahamian:
I think law school is still different from the actual practice of law. One of the classes that is, I think, instrumental for all of us in the legal professions is the professionalism class, ethics.? What you do, how you do it, how you present the case, because our clients are our number one priority and this is a very noble profession. The more practical classes, the mediation classes were very useful and helpful for the profession. As far as the core classes such as contracts, constitutional law, torts, very helpful when it came to torts because it's what I wanted to do. So then I took a products liability class, mass torts, aviation class with one of the greatest plaintiffs attorneys that I know, which was amazing. So all that of course helped set what we need to know as far as the law is concerned.
Chris Dreyer:
You're at the top of your class and you said, "Hey, I'm going to do this, I'm going to execute." You were very intentional about this. What's next? Right out of law school, did you start interning for someone?
Suzanna Abrahamian:
I'm a single mom to two boys, so I took the four-year route as opposed to three. But I was in a class full of 100 students, 80 students, the first general class setting with all students who were just the regular students, right out of college, there to just learn. But guess what, Chris? With dedication, hard work, I excelled in so many of the classes so the following year I was the teacher's assistant to civil procedure class, and also, I forgot, I think it was the mass torts class. And I taught the students that were taking the class following year, so it was so rewarding to do that. So then right out of law school, at the very end, I interned for a judge at LA Superior Court. Got great experience writing up tentative rulings, he would review them and say, "I think this is great."
And you would see it posted outside of the courtroom and when I would go in the next day, I would look at it and say, "You know what? That's great. That's actually my tentative ruling." Which he thought it was amazing and he stands by it. He also told me to go see some trials that were taking place at that time involving wrongful death cases. So I would go observe that. And then I also interned for the Attorney General's Office in the tort and condemnation section. So that was last year of law school. And then I sat in for the bar and passed and started practicing .
Chris Dreyer:
Wow. So you're moving right up. A lot of individuals, they're reading, they're testing, but you're getting on the application side with teaching, with these experiences, these rulings, and I imagine that set the tone. Did you start working at a law firm immediately right out of the gate because you had this great experience and probably these amazing references and individuals that would vouch for you?
Suzanna Abrahamian:
I started working at a big plaintiff's law firm for the first year and then I moved to another firm where I stayed close to about nine, 10 years, I would say. And then recently I just launched my own firm.
Chris Dreyer:
Yeah. And that's what I wanted to key in on. And you had some amazing settlements with the other firms and you did exceptional work for your clients. And I want to talk about this whirlwind experience because 10 years in you're like, "Hey, I'm doing this." So you've had your firm open for five, six months. And so what made you choose to take this path?
Suzanna Abrahamian:
Tough decision, but at the same time, a decision I was ready for. There comes a time where you evaluate, what am I doing now? Can I do something better? Can I do it differently? So what was my purpose? I started reevaluating myself and refocused, and a lot of it happened during the pandemic where I had more downtime and I thought, "I need to spend more time and give what I need to do to those clients I could relate to." I'm an immigrant, I relate to the clients where they're scared because they don't have a status. They think that they can't file a lawsuit because they're not legal.
One of the questions that we get asked all the time in litigation is, "What is your immigration status?" One of the reasons was that the client, communications, the contact, the relatable aspect, and for them to be able to both relate to me and for me to relate to them. That's my purpose, that's my satisfaction and that's my why. So that was one of the reasons. I have two boys that are growing up, one of them is on his way to go to law school and I think the other one might too, he's in 11th grade, he has a year left. And fingers crossed, what I do see is them joining my purpose, my vision in my firm, and for us to continue helping out the clients and the community and to do great work to give them what they deserve the most.
Chris Dreyer:
That's so amazing to know your purpose, to know your why and thank you for sharing that and that's just incredible. Let's talk about what goes into this. Because I'm sure many of our audience, maybe they're in a similar situation, maybe they have the competence and now they have the confidence to go out and start their own practice. What kind of planning goes into it? What are you thinking about in originating your own cases and in operations and just the cost that goes into this? Tell me about what went into this plan.
Suzanna Abrahamian:
So one of the things that goes into deciding is, am I competent enough to start on my own? So yes, check. More than 10 years of experience. Some people take off on their own and they have mentors, that's fine, but you've got to understand what is going to work for you. Do I have enough experience? As far as planning, I mean, it's a question goes into how am I going to get cases? Am I going to have enough work? Because at the end of the day, I have to support the family. That also comes with years of practice. Defense counsels know who you are, they know your reputation, they know your credibility, your integrity, your communication skills and what you do for the clients. They're on the other side. So one of my sources has been the defense counsels, the opposite side. They have people, if something happens to them, they think of who the credible attorneys that could go to and rely on because they know you fight. Once you set your groundwork and you become that reputable attorney, that's one of the ways.
Another way is working with other attorneys. It could be newer attorneys who don't have a lot of experience who want to get you on board, and I am more than happy to help. I get phone calls and text messages all the time, a few times a week, "Suzanna, what do you think of this situation? What do you think of that situation? Can you give me a sample of this?" More than happy to take those calls and help them out. And look, 10, 20, 30 times later, they might say, "You know what, Suzanna? Let's jump on this together. Are you willing to take this on? We would appreciate that." That's the second pillar, which has been great.
And establishing yourself with also the experienced attorneys who get a case where it doesn't really fit in their firm. For example, if they only do med mal or a product liability focused firm and they have a PI case with dog bites, which I'm in tune in, those cases, they might refer that to me. So you have to have your sources and the pillars if you're not the big billboard advertising attorney, to be able to bring in those cases.
Chris Dreyer:
Fantastic. I love how you talk about working your sphere of influence. I had Steve Fretzin in and he coaches on that, and you have this natural, you have this amazing sphere that you're working. And I love the giving out, putting out the goodwill and the go-giver mentality because it comes back 10X in reciprocity.
Suzanna Abrahamian:
Definitely. I'm a big believer in that. And Chris, also people that you represent with, if you do good work, if you do stellar work and they see that in you, they're going to come back to you. And getting that call, getting the text message saying, "Suzanna, thank you so much for doing this for me. I could tell you how much heart you put into my case and I thank you for it." And who are they going to refer their case to or their friend's case? They're going to refer it to you.
Chris Dreyer:
Absolutely. One of the things you mentioned that I just want to key in on here is, and I just had a conversation with John Robinson from Consumer Attorney Marketing Group and we were talking about these underserved practice areas. Most of the billboard lawyers, the TV lawyers, and they're the big advertisers, nothing wrong with that. They do a lot of auto accidents, but cases like your dog bites or some slip and falls in premises fall away or they're just not focused on. When it goes to Google Ads and these other marketing channels and you're bidding on car accident lawyer, maybe $300, $500 a click versus dog bite accident attorney or premises liability attorney may be significantly lower. So have you found that an easy approach to these more experienced PI attorneys or more veteran firms that have been around a long time?
Suzanna Abrahamian:
Some attorneys stay away from particular type of cases. Like you mentioned, they only want those auto cases. Yes, they're not paid attention to, sadly, the way they should and that brought me back to the client contact, knowing the client's story and how much time you spend with them. But premises liability cases, dog bite cases, those cases are ones that I've seen more and more to be referred out to than auto accident, simple liability is clear. But even with the liability disputed cases, a lot of attorneys would like to refer those out as opposed to litigating those cases.
Chris Dreyer:
Fantastic. Let's talk about a little forecasting here. So at the beginning, when you start your firm, you're wearing 10,000 hats. And if you've read book Michael Gerber's book, The E-Myth Revisited, it's like you have the technician, the manager, the owner and you're wearing all these hats. So when you think about growing, how are you approaching additional labor? How are you thinking of this as you grow?
Suzanna Abrahamian:
Definitely one step at a time. One, it's about organizing, timing, client contact. Again, that has to be key to maintain those cases and making sure that the clients receive more than that check. The delegating aspect, you have to think about when you're managing the firm. Respecting your team, being loyal to your team, working with your team. All that is crucial. Your core values when you're building a firm is crucial. So you have to set that as soon as people coming in, you have to know what are your core values and is this person going to fit within the values of your firm?
So as I bring in people, associates, as you mentioned, one of the key things I'm going to look at is will this person fit within what I look at what my firm stands for? Is it going to be aligned with the purpose and its values? Other roles as far as writing the checks out, accounting and so forth, that I could tell you I haven't done, but am I going to be able to do it? Of course. So it's just you learn as you go in terms of those aspects and as soon as I know that there's definitely need, a person comes on board. No issues there because I wouldn't want to take my time away from what I need to do just to fill in those aspects of running a firm.
Chris Dreyer:
Fantastic. The thing that I keep hearing you repeat from the very beginning, "It's about the client. It's about the client." I don't even think you said customer because they're an individual and I love that focus. I've always been intrigued with the organizational design of firms as you grow. I guess at the beginning, the attorney is client services and as you grow, it seems like Mike Morse from Michigan where he's got a massive PI firm where he's got these dedicated case managers. Is the case manager, is it just your client service person that's updating the client on the case and then you have the attorneys working? Tell me a little bit about the organizational design and maybe some of our audience that's a little unsure about these organizational components that go into it.
Suzanna Abrahamian:
Mike Morse is great, Fireproof is a great book to read. I think I've heard him on your podcast too. Client contact, like I said, is huge. There has to be communication, there has to be compassion. We could have so many clients, but they only have one attorney, it's just us. So what do they expect from you? They came to you for a reason, they came to you for help. So you have to deliver that. There are so many firms that say, "Client first, client first," and then a client goes and just figures out, "Wait a minute, what happened? Who's my attorney? Where is my attorney?"
Chris Dreyer:
Or gets referred.
Suzanna Abrahamian:
Yeah. Right. So who is my attorney? I want to be in touch with the attorney and not just the case manager. So it's crucial that I think a call goes, if you are going to have a case manager, if you are going to have an associate working with you, there is an introduction to the client, "Here is my team, this is the person that is going to do so-and-so and so. You don't hear from this person, you reach out to me directly. Here's my number. I will always reach out to you, you will know everything that's going on with your case, I am here to answer your question. I'm willing to meet with you in person, over the phone, by Zoom, however you like to be updated."
But every single person has to have their responsibilities and follow through with it. That's my take on servicing the client because I know what it's like to be in that situation. Sure, mine was extremely traumatic, it was really sad. And Chris, when I've worked on the wrongful death cases, I had a recent one that settled I think maybe two years ago, till today, I'm still in touch with them. I can't even call them clients anymore but they felt that they're being heard, which is key. You have to make sure that they're heard. Were there other associates working? Yes. Who were they in contact with? Me. So it's important for them to feel heard, safe and taken care of.
Chris Dreyer:
And I've got to say, if I'm ever in a bad situation where I need an attorney, I want the communication because if I don't have it, I'm just going to fill my head with the worst case scenario. So having that access is reassuring, the stresses decline. I imagine too, them turning into evangelists to help promote you and advocate for you for review or referrals easier, and then you stand significantly less likelihood of getting a negative review, which can be very damaging to a firm.
Suzanna Abrahamian:
That can happen. As great as you could be, that can happen. But yes, you have a great point. The better you do, the less you're going to have of that and the greater reviews you're going to have.
Chris Dreyer:
Where can people go to get in touch with you and what's next?
Suzanna Abrahamian:
My email address, it's Suzanna@Suzannaabrahamianlawfirm.com. And what's next for me is amazing growth and fulfilling my purpose, my why, Chris.
Chris Dreyer:
Thanks so much to Suzanna for sharing her wisdom today. Let's hit the takeaways, time for the pinpoints work. Work your sphere of influence. Your first clients are closer than you think. Help those next to you when they ask for it. This builds credibility and authority with your peers, making you the go-to for your co-counsel and references for other attorneys.
Suzanna Abrahamian:
I am more than happy to help, I get phone calls and text messages all the time. "What do you think of this situation? What do you think of that situation? Can you give me a sample of this?" More than happy to take those calls and help them out. And look, 10, 20, 30 times later, they might say, "You know what, Suzanna? Let's jump on this together."
Chris Dreyer:
Tap into underserved markets, everyone wants that auto case so the demand for acquisition will be much more expensive. Drive down the cost for acquisition, look for cases that fall by the wayside, like premises liability.
Suzanna Abrahamian:
Premises liability cases, dog bite cases, those cases are ones that I've seen more and more to be referred out to than auto accident, simple liability is clear. But even with the liability disputed cases, a lot of attorneys would like to refer those out as opposed to litigating those cases.
Chris Dreyer:
Talk to your clients. A case manager is a great resource to have. Introduce your clients to the members of your team who will be touching the case. Continue with frequent and transparent communication to strengthen the connection to the client.
Suzanna Abrahamian:
They came to you for a reason. If you are going to have a case manager, if you are going to have an associate working with you, there is an introduction, "Here is my team. You don't hear from this person, you reach out to me directly. Here's my number."
Chris Dreyer:
For more information about Suzanna, check out the show notes. While you're there, hit that follow button so that you never miss an episode of Personal Injury Mastermind with me, Chris Dreyer, Founder and CEO of Rankings.io. All right everybody, thanks for hanging out. See you next time. I'm out.
