Ken Hardison:
I think it's the biggest thing to ever hit in my lifetime.
Kyle Roof:
It can help you do SEO a little bit faster, but if you're bad at SEO, it's just going to help you do bad SEO faster.
James Grant:
Things that you can measure and the things that you can review, that's what matters. Everything else is just noise.
Ryan Stewart:
We're just being a lot more strategic and looking for the best entry point.
Chris Dreyer:
Welcome to a special edition of Toolkit Tuesday on Personal Injury Mastermind. I'm your host, Chris Dreyer, founder and CEO of Rankings.io, the elite legal marketing agency. Each week, you get insights and wisdom from some of the best in the industry. If you've been here before, you know the Toolkit Tuesday is where we dive deep in the conversations with the leading vendors and attorneys in the legal sphere. To stay ahead, you need to be a knife edge of innovation. Artificial intelligence or AI is the forefront of transforming legal services, so on this episode, we're bringing you the highlights from our in-depth conversations about AI and how they can give your firm the competitive advantage.
You'll hear key insights from legal tech pioneers on how AI can help you work smarter, not harder. From automating routine tasks to flipping SEO on its head, AI has the power to boost productivity and supercharge your marketing. From content ideas to backend processes, the insights in today's episode are not to be missed. To kick things off, we have the CEO of Webris, Ryan Stewart. He has helped thousands of firms up their SEO game and has been a top tier marketer for over 15 years. AI has helping us rethink the way we approach content strategies for more conversions. Let's go.
Ryan Stewart:
Having been in this business for long enough now, I realize that new changes like this, it's going to eviscerate a lot of the market, but it's also going to create a lot of opportunity, right? For people that are willing to change their systems, willing to change their strategy, willing to say, "Okay, we've done it this way for X amount of years, but we've got to adapt." That's the mindset that I'm approaching this with, and the initial strategy that we're taking is we're calling flipping the funnel upside down. The past couple of years, content has become a big part of SEO. What's going to happen with this AI generative search, this is just my hypothesis, is that content-based queries or informational based queries, like what's the DUI level in Florida, that would be a piece of content that a lot of firms would probably build for a law firm and say, "Oh, it's good supporting content. I'll pick up additional traffic." That traffic's gone.
So what we're doing is we're saying, "Okay, instead of taking this top down approach looking at volume approach, we're going to take a bottom up approach," right? Meaning we're only going to look at the keywords that are going to drive business value for your law firm. In other words, if somebody searches for this, does this end up in a conversion? That's not just the intent behind the query, but also looking at what's the action in search engines. So is it an AI result? Is it ad result? Is it a local maps pack? Is it content? Whatever that is. We're taking this bottom up approach by saying, "Okay, we're going to save you on the budget," because also we'll talk about probably what's happening in the law firm market, which I think budgets are coming down because of the increased competition. I think just the increased cost of running a business increased everything.
Everyone's feeling a bit of a market burn right now in terms of operational costs running a business, so I think a lot of the prospects and clients that we are working with are going from having maybe a 20, 15, 10, 5K budget, they're shrinking, so if we can reduce our CapEx and we can pass that on clients, so we're looking at how do we strip down our service to only focus on queries that are going to make the client more money? That's number one. Then number two is take what we called this vertical integration approach to keyword research. So vertical integration in the business world, that's kind of how I have my company set up. Meaning I'm able to vertically align my operations, my people, my staff, my processes, and then basically distribute them through different companies to service different parts of the market, right?
Blueprint and Webris really have the same product. It's just delivered differently. We're running the same core operations and systems. One's more of a training and coaching for agencies like yours. The other one would be for a law firm, but it's the same process. We're just building it differently. So taking this concept and applying it to keyword research, meaning once we've identified the keywords that we know without a shadow of a doubt intent wise, if somebody is searching for this, then it's going to result in a call or a lead for a law firm. We're then going that and taking that to search engines and saying, "Okay, if somebody's looking for, I don't know, immigration attorney near me, what's happening in search engines?" And we're literally just plugging that in manual and saying, "Okay, LSA is the top result here," so that is probably what we want to assign to get visibility for this keyword.
Basically, going down this keyword list and instead of just jamming down one approach or jamming content and just doing everything, we're just being a lot more strategic and looking for the best entry point, especially for smaller firms. How can we get them to 10 to 15 phone calls a month that are going to be quality at a reasonable cost, and then expand from there? If we start with LSAs or we start with local SEO, then we can go to local ads, then we can go to paid search ads, and we can expand that way. Then we can look in to go into new markets, things like that, but we're really trying to strip it down because we think there's been a lot of fluff and a lot of waste in the industry over the past five years, and that's what happened when times are good.
When there's money going around, we inflate our services, we sell more stuff, but at the end of the day, marketing is about making people more money, period. Somewhere along the line, the SEO industry got fat, it got bloated, which is fine. It's a great sign for this business in this industry, but I just think, as a business, an agency, if you want to make it through this AI wave, you got to make people money. It's that simple, right? I think if you're a law firm on the other end listening to this too, you need to be evaluating an agency based on that. Based on data, based on numbers, really looking at what's happening in search and not just throwing money at a campaign and hoping that it sticks, you know.
Chris Dreyer:
Tools like chatbots or integrations can seem daunting at first, but James Grant, co-founder of Georgia Trial Attorneys, demystifies the practical ways that AI can boost productivity.
James Grant:
The things that you can measure and the things that you can review, that's what matters. Everything else is just noise. So it's all about numbers. I know attorneys hate numbers, most of us didn't go to math school for business, but at the end of the day, if you are running a law firm, you're running a business, and you have to run your business just like a business. When it comes to us in our firm, we're set up with a pod system. Every attorney that we have has their own paralegal, has their own administrative assistant, and that team is responsible for generating a certain fee revenue and handling a certain number of cases.
We're very big on automation and AI, workflows, things to automate so many processes that take the human element out of simple things where mail gets scanned in, the document gets named a certain way based upon the first few words within the page, and based on that, then gets uploaded to a certain folder or a doc or a file and then a notification goes to the correct person. Just simple things that we have the ability with Microsoft to build in workflows and automation that really make things more efficient.
Chris Dreyer:
It seems like AI is the discussion topic of the year, but since you opened the door there, what are some of the AI, some of the tech that you're using to enhance your operation as your delivery?
James Grant:
ChatGPT is the craziest thing I have ever seen, and at least from a legal industry perspective, I don't think many of us truly understand how amazing ChatGPT is, and it integrates with Microsoft. I don't think most people even know that. You can get integrations and workflows to where ChatGPT can reach out to your clients and answer your client's questions based on information that you train it on receiving. We're building a chatbot with ChatGPT, not just like the chatbots that you see on a website that just pop up and you can chat in the browser. I'm talking a chatbot to where when a client sends an email that says, "Hey, what's going on with my case?" ChatGPT can look at the file and then formulator response that is accurate to the client based upon the information that it received. It's literally mind-blowing how much stuff that's out there.
We're big Microsoft subscribers. Microsoft is, again, a whole another world of untapped knowledge and potential for businesses out there because you have Power BI, Microsoft Power Automate, and there's all these workflows and checklists, and things that Microsoft has already built that work that if you just piece and cobble together can be a whole new tool for your team. The options are endless, and it can seem complicated and overwhelming, but if you just start and dig in and even take some of these free training courses that Microsoft offers, you'll just learn how to maximize the simple tools that you have, and this is just the tip of the iceberg. We don't even know what AI is going to look like in six months, but I think some of those products like Engage and Apex and all these different chatbots that are out there, I think that's one of those things where the market's going to have to shift to adjust because ChatGPT and other AIs that I don't even know about are going to be coming for those things to make it even more streamlined and more realistic.
Chris Dreyer:
Founder of PILMMA, Ken Hardison, has been at the forefront of innovation. He recognizes AI as the largest tech leap in a generation. Ken sees AI as the great equalizer.
Ken Hardison:
I think it's the biggest thing to ever hit in my lifetime. The internet was big. Those that embraced it and got on it, the lawyers that got on it, they made a lot of money and they're still making money because of their longevity, and you know that better than anybody. The ones that just said, "Oh, it's just a pad or whatever," this thing has grown faster than anything new, but in three months, it had over a million users. We just are on the edge of it, I mean what it can do, but what I think it's going to do is I don't think it's going to replace people because that's what everybody's scared of. I'm not scared of it replacing people.
I think what it's going to do is that, as far as the marketing part, I see it as a great equalizer for smaller law firms that can pump out a lot of content, and you'll get people to argue with you both ways, but my research shows me that if you do it right and you go back over to content, make sure the lawyer in New York didn't go back and check the citations, it's going to make mistakes, but it can reduce the amount of labor it takes to produce something. Instead of putting out 20 or 30 pages of content a month, realistically, you could use the same person to put out 300 pages of content. It could write blogs. I think it's going to be very useful. We're testing it now with an avatar.
We're using this thing called Opus where I take one of my podcasts, and then just run it through the deal and let it just cut me out a bunch of shorts to use on social media, which saves time, right? It saves time for me, it saves time for the editing, which is always the hard part about video to me. That's just two or three spaces voiceovers. That's the scary part because me and you are out there all day, so somebody could take our voice and take our image and put shit out there, and that could be a bad part of it. That scares me. On the productivity side, for PI Lawyers especially, man, writing demands, you can bring that in-house instead of paying these companies to do it. You could probably do five to 10 demands where it used to take time to take you to do one.
Now, you still got to go back over it, still got to look at this medical chronologies, using them for depot preps, you can use them for how to dumb down something for a jury, discovery if you get an AI, not ChatGPT, but an AI platform and download it in. That's what everybody's thinking. It's just ChatGPT. ChatGPT, I think in the next couple years, it's going to be only like 10% of the use. There's so many free AI platforms out there that you can use and dump stuff in so you don't have to worry about your client's personal information, the HIPAA rules and regulations. So you're going to have your own learning machine and you're going to be feeding it, and that's where I see it going.
Chris Dreyer:
The potential of AI seems limitless. Kyle Roof, expert SEO and mind behind Page Optimizer Pro, helps separate AI hype from reality. While AI can speed up content generation, it still requires careful human intervention. SEO comes down to optimization, and algorithms always need optimizing.
Kyle Roof:
Right now, the generative AI that we have, the language models, that's all they are, our language models, and to be honest, they're fancy spinners. That's really all that they are. They aren't creating anything. There's nothing AI about them. They're taking information or words that they know, and then they're predicting what words should come up based on what you've asked it. That's not anything that anybody needs to be concerned about in terms of losing a job. My entire career, every six months, SEO has died. Every six months. Somehow, not only has it not died, it's continued to flourish and it's done remarkably well. I can see that maybe there are going to be some tweaks here and there on some things, but at the end of the day, as long as it's an algorithm, that means there'll be optimization. The only time we're screwed is when it's humans actually just picking the order.
That is the order that should be, but as long as it's math, as long as it's an algorithm, even if it's an AI generated algorithm, that's still an algorithm that'll still need optimization. Basically, we'll be doing this, I think, till we don't want to do it anymore instead of us getting kicked out of anything. The one way I would use AI right now is that it does speed up content generation, in particular, content ideas. I think that's a great way to do it, but you cannot just ask it for content and then take that and put it onto your site, especially in the law space. I'm sure you heard about the lawyer that filed the brief with the fake cases, right? That was intense where ChatGPT gave them four very fake cases and lied about it too. Are these real cases? Yeah, those are real cases because it's not lying and it's not looking up information because it just doesn't know.
Anything you get does need to be edited for tone, brand, factual situations, and then also uniqueness. Well, I think you can speed up the process of content generation a bit. You still have to have a lot of human intervention, and you also need a plan. It can't come up with a plan for your SEO. It can help you do SEO a little bit faster, but if you're bad at SEO, it's just going to help you do bad SEO faster. It's not going to somehow drag you into... You're not going to be an amazing SEO because of it. You still have to prompt it to get the stuff back out of it. You still have to manipulate that content and how it's going to work in a broader scheme or campaign. AI is not doing any of that, so we'll be good. We're fine. I would use it for content generation, and that's about it.
Chris Dreyer:
1000%, and I am in complete agreement of Article Spinner 2.0 is essentially what it is, you know?
Kyle Roof:
And it's great. I mean it's impressive, but that's all that it is.
Chris Dreyer:
Yeah, and you have to have the unique personalization, make it personal and all that. Otherwise, you could get into trouble for a variety of reasons, the unique aspects, everything to that degree. I think all SEOs when ChatGPT came out were like, "Oh, shit. We're done," but then you use it, and it's like, "Oh, okay, here are the limitations," and then you have to take a step back and say, "Well, Google's not going to change." They're going to optimize their algorithm, but they still have to sort everything on the web, and if they have to sort that and it can't be done manually, the labor arbitrage there would be ridiculous compared to what they're doing with software and just algorithms.
Yeah, there's just a lot of opportunity. I think too, the other thing that I think there's going to be more emphasis on the, and just personally, just on the reviews side from a local SEO brick and mortar capacity, and we already see a lot of pressure there anyways, but it feels like there's this monopoly when there's only three results not counting paid, and when the new algorithm, there's a lot more maps, a lot more options, kind of reminds me of an Amazon shopping cart compared to shopping scenario.
Kyle Roof:
That's right.
Chris Dreyer:
Yeah.
Kyle Roof:
Yeah, that just means more opportunities for optimization.
Chris Dreyer:
Thanks so much to all of our guests for sharing their insights on AI. Let's get over to those takeaways. Disruption is a good thing. Those willing to embrace change will reap the rewards. Flip the content funnel on its head and let conversions lead your strategy.
Ryan Stewart:
Basically, going down this keyword list and instead of just jamming down one approach or jamming content and just doing everything, we're just being a lot more strategic and looking for the best entry point, especially for smaller firms. How can we get them to 10 to 15 phone calls a month?
Chris Dreyer:
Efficiency equals velocity. Quicker velocity needs a larger bottom line. Focus on data metrics and automation.
James Grant:
We're very big on automation and AI, workflows, things to automate so many processes that take the human element out. Simple things where mail gets scanned in, the document gets named a certain way based upon the first few words within the page, and based on that, then gets uploaded to a certain folder or doc or a file, and then a notification goes to the correct person. Just simple things that we have the ability with Microsoft to build in workflows and automation that really make things more efficient.
Chris Dreyer:
No excuses. When it comes to content, AI can help level the digital marketing playing field, whatever your firm's size or budget.
Ken Hardison:
It's going to make mistakes, but it can reduce the amount of labor it takes to produce something. Instead of putting out 20 or 30 pages of content a month, realistically, you can use the same person and put out 300 pages of content.
Chris Dreyer:
AI is here to stay, but it will not replace humans. As you've heard, AI is great for ideas and initial draughts of content, and even speeds up the processes done by hand, but successful digital marketing and SEO strategies are still the human jobs.
Kyle Roof:
It can help you do SEO a little bit faster, but if you're bad at SEO, it's just going to help you do bad SEO faster. You're not going to be an amazing SEO because of it. You still have to prompt it to get the stuff back out of it. You still have to manipulate that content and how it's going to work in a broader scheme or campaign. AI is not doing any of that, so we'll be good. We're fine. I would use it for content generation, and that's about it.
Chris Dreyer:
All right, everybody, I hope this episode gave you some solid information about opportunities and the limitations of AI. If you have any questions or need guidance for a winning SEO strategy, head to our website, Rankings.io. You can also find the link in the show notes. While you're there, leave me a five star review. I'll be forever grateful. Thanks for listening to Personal Injury Mastermind with me, Chris Dreyer, founder and CEO of Rankings.io. Catch you next time. I'm out.
