BRESHA SHEPHERD:
Their experience with us will be the best experience they've had, and I'm going to make sure of that.
SONYA PALMER
To provide the best client experience, empower your team. Allow them to embrace a leadership position and take ownership of their role.
BRESHA SHEPHERD:
It all comes down to being the best at what you're capable of doing and then striving in that role.
SONYA PALMER
In 2021, women made up over half of all summer associates for the fourth year in a row. Yet equity partners and multi-tier law firms continue to be disproportionately white men. Only 22% of equity partners are women. We would like to see that change. Hello and welcome to LawHer, the show where we celebrate the trailblazing attorneys and entrepreneurs who are changing the game for women in the legal field. Hello and welcome to LawHer, the show where we celebrate the trailblazing attorneys and entrepreneurs who are changing the game for women in the legal field. Be inspired by their stories, learn from their mistakes, build community, and look forward to the future they're helping build for the next generation of women in law, and look forward to the future they're helping build for the next generation of women in-law. I am Sonya Palmer, your host and VP of Operations at Rankings, the SEO agency of Choice for Personal Injury Lawyers. This is LawHer. Bresha Shepherd has helped build a thriving culture at Varghese Summersett, recently voted as one of the top four places for working moms; the firm leans into its family-first values. As Director of Intake, she ensures that each employee on her team is empowered to take ownership of their role and make it their own. From intake to onboarding, Bresha offers insights on blending personal touches with automation to deliver an elevated client experience. A culture of empowerment can't come from one person alone. She explains why the buy-in of every attorney and partner is critical to the success of the firm. We discuss how to get the best out of every employee. Growing up, Bresha had watched criminal defense attorneys on television and was sure that life and law were what she wanted. After undergrad, she was invited to work at the law practice of a family friend. Let's dive in.
BRESHA SHEPHERD:
She got me hooked up with now my boss, Mr. Benson Varghese, and Miss Anna Summersett to come in and help them out through their growth. They had just let the DA's office, and so I started with them eight years ago, almost eight years ago.
SONYA PALMER
Wow.
BRESHA SHEPHERD:
I never went to law school. I think that's something that is important to me. I had these goals set for myself, but at the end of the day, they made it so hard to leave. I realized that my position and my leadership within a law firm didn't have to come from being an attorney, didn't have to come from being a partner, a managing partner. It could be in any role I wanted to be in. That's how I am where I am today, and I love it.
SONYA PALMER
Now as an intake specialist, what do you find the most rewarding?
BRESHA SHEPHERD:
I've always been on the front lines with our law firm, and I've always kind of been the face of the law firm. At our law firm, we do criminal defense, we do family law, and we've dabbled a little bit into PI, but my baby is criminal defense. When people have these really hard, troubling times in their lives, criminal defense is urgent. It's someone who's been arrested, charged with a crime, and in trouble and needs somebody. I think for me, the most rewarding thing is I can really empathize and relate and guide them through a really hard time. When someone at the end of the day is like, "Thank you for listening to me, thank you for believing me, thank you for trusting me," It's that partnership that you have throughout the duration of a case, throughout the duration of a phone call. That's so important because you get referrals, and you get reoccurring clients; even though we don't want people to get in trouble again, that sets the way and paves the way for our future clients.
SONYA PALMER
Sure. We talk a lot about that with personal injury lawyers and personal injury victims. You're seeing people on the worst day of their life, the worst time in their life. It's not untrue for criminal defense. It's the same thing. They need just as much help to help guide them through the process.
BRESHA SHEPHERD:
It can be hard to compartmentalize at times, but at the end of the day, these are still human beings with real-life problems. This is what I'm called to do, and I'm going to do it to the best of my ability and help guide people through something that I know I'm an expert in. I'm an expert in knowing how the criminal justice system works, especially here in Tarrant County. Guiding them through that to where they can at least have their minds eased a little bit or at least know they have someone in their corner is important to me. That's rewarding.
SONYA PALMER
The point is ultimately rehabilitation, right?
BRESHA SHEPHERD:
Yes ma'am.
SONYA PALMER
Lawyer,0r attorney can be the first step in that process?
BRESHA SHEPHERD:
Right.
SONYA PALMER
Set the stage for us.
BRESHA SHEPHERD:
Yes.
SONYA PALMER
Are you 100% in-house 24/7? I know you said they talk to you.
BRESHA SHEPHERD:
Yes.
SONYA PALMER
Do you use a service?
BRESHA SHEPHERD:
Yeah. When people call our law firm, we have people here who, from eight to five, answer the phones around the clock. We also have an answering service, Smith.ai, who's wonderful. We use them after hours, but those after hours, they're sending us the leads, and we're on the phone. We are available 24/7. I'm usually available 24/7. If someone has this urgent need, they reach out to us; they need a criminal defense attorney. We're in the four-pack of Google; they search best criminal defense attorney in Fort Worth or Dallas or whatever. They get us, and they want us. Just because they want us doesn't necessarily mean we're the best fit for them. My job is to understand what they're going through, understand what their expectations are, lay out those expectations, and then, "You know what? Actually, you're a great fit for our firm. We can help you through this," or, "Our expertise might not be in parole or pardons or deregistration, but I can refer you to somebody who can help you." That's kind of my job role, and around the clock, I'm seeing who is comfortable with us so I can get them in touch with an attorney right away who is an urgency of need of that. Then also, helping them if they're not the right fit for us or if they're just looking to talk to somebody, to listen and then get them to the correct person.
SONYA PALMER
You have a very big role. How many are on your team in total?
BRESHA SHEPHERD:
Physically, in our Fort Worth location, we have about 30 people. I want to say on our family law side; we have about eight. On our criminal defenses, the rest of them ranges from interns to reception to associates, attorneys, and project managers. I mean, we have any and everything you can think of, videographers and social media. Everything we do is in-house. We're one of the largest in Tarrant County for criminal defense.
SONYA PALMER
Sure. I want to unpack a couple of the things that you just mentioned.
BRESHA SHEPHERD:
Mm-hmm.
SONYA PALMER
You just mentioned a whole lot of marketing adventures. We know that as marketing increases, so does the number of calls.
BRESHA SHEPHERD:
Yes. Yes.
SONYA PALMER
If you want that to generate revenue, you got to get intake correct.
BRESHA SHEPHERD:
Correct.
SONYA PALMER
When a new client calls, what does that first interaction look like?
BRESHA SHEPHERD:
I like to explain to people that kind of ask this similar question, especially with our firm, we operate as a world-class service provider, not a law firm. I want people to have that five-star experience from the first phone call. I don't want it to be so dark wood, "Good old boy, come and talk to me. Let's figure out your case." I want it to be where we are accessible. We are confident, and we're consistent and sophisticated. I think with people going through a really hard time in their lives, having that empathy, making sure we're relating, and discussing everything with them so that they understand. A lot of times, you can get totally different types of people on the line. You can get very angry people, and you can get very nice people, you get very sad people. It relates to any type of person who's calling to make sure that they are in line and understand what the process looks like. That could be family members, or that could be the potential new client. It's important for people to understand this is someone's freedom on the line. That's a huge role, and that's a huge intake for somebody who is on the other end of the phone. I'm dealing with someone's freedom, and that's huge. You want to ensure that you're discussing that correctly and setting those expectations, so they know going forward, "Okay, this is what this looks like. This is why I trust these people because I'm not the first person they've seen. I'm not the last person they're going to see." I also tell people, "I think our Google reviews speak for that." Often, people leave us Google reviews because of their experience with us, not necessarily a type of outcome of their case, although we do get really good favorable outcomes. It's not always about the outcome; it's about the experience and the imprint that we've left on somebody throughout that duration.
SONYA PALMER
I love that. I think that your attitude, and your approach to that, is probably a testament to your success, kind of like you said.
BRESHA SHEPHERD:
I hope so.
SONYA PALMER
Yeah, regardless of the outcome, if you're getting positive Google reviews just because your clients had a positive experience, even if it was a negative or not the desired result, that is huge. It's very specific. You sound like you have processes, approaches, and all of that in place. Do you have scripts that you and your team follow?
BRESHA SHEPHERD:
Yeah, it's a Google Doc of scripts that we like to follow with certain types of cases. I know our attorneys use that more than I do. I can kind of fill it out pretty quickly. I think just working in criminal defense for seven and a half years, dealing with all different types of people, different types of cases, different types of geolocations, and practice areas, I try to fill it out the best way I can. I know our attorneys, partners, and associates here have scripts that they go by; obviously, they're the ones giving the legal advice. They're the ones talking through, "Okay, this is the prosecutor in that court. This is what this is going to look like. This is going to be the initial offer, probably." They're the ones that give all that legal advice. I'm just the one setting that relationship, selling them on our experience, selling them on the attorney, selling them on the firm. Every attorney in our office has a specific practice area in which they'd thrive, and I know that. I know them like the back of my hand. I can be like, "I know this attorney, our managing partner; I know him well; I know his wife well. I know she's the best when it comes to DWI cases. I know this because we got this result in court last week." It's important for me to know the attorneys well, but also to set that for our potential new clients so like, "Hey, this is the attorney you need to speak with right now. This is the person I want to put you in touch with because he's a former homicide detective; he was a former chief prosecutor. He knows what he's doing regarding these specific types of cases." Regarding scripts, yes, I use our attorneys' backgrounds and accolades a lot, but I know the attorneys use more of the day-by-day scripts on what their advice would be for people facing criminal charges.
SONYA PALMER
That makes sense. It sounds like you have the EQ to be able to wing it based on who you're talking to in that situation.
BRESHA SHEPHERD:
I know it's different in every legal space. I know with criminal defense, that's just where I'm comfortable. There's no way I could sit on family law or personal injury intake. There's no way. It would take a lot to learn. I know it's a completely different legal space, and it's an immediate, urgent need, as you said. I can't imagine not having a script for that.
SONYA PALMER
Scripts are a great way to ensure that the client experience is the same across the board and that all the necessary information is being gathered. The scripts and the screening process will, of course, evolve.
BRESHA SHEPHERD:
The screening process now looks more of, "Okay, where are you calling from? Where are you being charged, or is the investigator arrested? Who's reaching out to you?" There are only certain geographic locations that we represent. If someone's calling from Houston, Texas, I have to refer them out. It's, "Okay, where are you calling from? Who are you calling for? Where are you being investigated? What are you being investigated for?" The screening process looks like where, when, and who. It's kind of just a, "Who's in trouble? Are they in jail? Where are they in jail? Where are they in trouble? What type of need do they need? Why are they calling us? Why are you calling us," kind of thing. There are certain cases that we won't take. I mean, we have a lot of information on our website about pardons and paroles and deregistration. That's just something we, a lot of times, refer out because we don't have somebody in the house that is an expert or wants to take on those specific types of cases. The screening process just looks like, "Are you a good fit for us? Are we a good fit for you? Are you in the geolocation that we practice in our surrounding counties? If you are, let's get this thing started."
SONYA PALMER
Awesome. Once that client's been processed, you've got all the information that you need; what's next? They go into a CRM?
BRESHA SHEPHERD:
Yeah. When I have all the information, I usually get them to an attorney right away. That's something we pride ourselves on. We've seen success and growth when our potential new clients, the first time they call when they speak with me, get to an attorney right away. A lot of the time, those attorneys land those cases. That is success in itself. I make sure an attorney's available. If it's not the attorney that I think might be best for that specific case, I still want to get them in front of an attorney. One thing at our firm we pride ourselves on is a team approach. You don't just get one of us; you get all of us. If a specific case goes to a specific partner, but that partner has a better relationship with a prosecutor in court, we're going to put the person that's capable and available to go in to negotiate with that prosecutor because they have that relationship with that prosecutor. It goes straight to an attorney. The attorney kind of will walks them through it. Let's say they don't hire on that phone call. We have an intake system in place. We're doing text follow-ups. We're sending blogs about the specific practice area, and blogs about the specific partner they spoke with. Pretty email is what we call it. "Hey, following up with you, do you still need legal representation?" We kind of has a process put in place for follow-up after the initial intake. One thing we pride ourselves on is getting them to an attorney first call.
SONYA PALMER
Even unsigned clients talk to an attorney.
BRESHA SHEPHERD:
Yes. It's crazy, too; our managing partner, Mr. Benson Varghese, and his wife, Anna Summersett, the founders of our firm, they're the ones taking a lot of the intakes.
SONYA PALMER
Wow.
BRESHA SHEPHERD:
I'm like, "How do they have time?" It's like they're taking intakes all the time, and it's like, this could be anybody else, but they care so much about this potential new client, this person on the other end of the phone, that they're going to make themselves available to take the phone call. I think that says a lot about them.
SONYA PALMER
At what point are fees discussed?
BRESHA SHEPHERD:
I kind of have a range of fees. Normally I'm slacking the partners, "Hey, this person's on the phone." I know a lot of the times when we have certain misdemeanor cases or felony cases, I know where those ballparks will lie. That's something I tell them like, "Hey, before I get you over to one of our partners who can handle this from the ground up for you, I just want to let you know, here's a ballpark of what I've seen them quote in the past." I've found that to be super helpful. A lot of times, people hate having that conversation with the person handling their case. They hate it. They're like, "Oh my gosh," they get all tense. If they hear it from me first and what this looks like, and then I get to follow it up with, "By the way, this attorney is board certified in this area. This is why it's this number, this is why it's this fee or this ballpark," it kind of makes more sense for them. The attorneys don't have to return and say, "I'm the best at doing this job for you. I can get you this." It's somebody else on their behalf of them, kind of laying that out for them.
SONYA PALMER
Okay, excellent. You talked about how that human to human, how important that human to human outreach is. I also hear you mention texting services and some automation.
BRESHA SHEPHERD:
Yes.
SONYA PALMER
What's the balance there? What have you been able to automate successfully? What do you feel still needs to be that person-to-person?
BRESHA SHEPHERD:
When someone retains our firm, I have them ask, "How would you best be communicated with? Is that over the phone? Do you want me to call you every time there's an update in your case? Do you want the attorney to call you? Do you just want the basic information? Are you good with the text message? Are you good with case management systems? Are you good with the message to the case management system, a confidential case management system?" I like to know. I can tell pretty quickly, many times on intake, what type of person they are. I don't know if you know the Kolbe Assessment. It's an assessment that a lot of times people in the workforce, it's kind of how you work, why you work.
SONYA PALMER
Yes.
BRESHA SHEPHERD:
They can be fact finders, people that want all the information, quick starts, and people that just like basic information, and get through it. We do that within our law firm, but I can tell now that we've done that assessment within our law firm with potential new clients who call, I'm like, "Okay, they're going to want to know all the information upfront. This is their first time ever dealing with something." I kind of make a mental note, "Okay, I'm going to call them every time something important, something they need to know." We obviously double up on a lot of things too. We will call, text, will message. It's just good to cover all bases of communication that way.
SONYA PALMER
Are there any tools or systems, or processes that you would like to implement? What do you see for the future?
BRESHA SHEPHERD:
We're super growth-minded. I mean, we just keep growing, pushing the envelope. One thing I would like to implement is a referral-based process where after every criminal case that we've disposed of, "Hey, we're sending you a postcard in the mail; thank you so much for trusting us. By the way, if you haven't yet, leave us a five-star review," you know what I mean? Still have that connection and have that process put in place. I think our process throughout the entire duration of a criminal case is almost perfect. I think towards the end, we lose that sometimes. It's so hard because we're like, "Yay, we're done. Awesome. Great. Let's get on with our next client." When in reality, that relationship, even after something is over, is so important. It's so important for referrals, for just being known and being out in the community, and for people knowing our name. It's so important.
SONYA PALMER
A couple of follow-ups there. A lot of our audience and a lot of firm owners struggle with Google reviews.
BRESHA SHEPHERD:
Mm-hmm.
SONYA PALMER
Do you send a physical postcard to their address?
BRESHA SHEPHERD:
A lot of times, people like to do it immediately, right? They're like, "Thank goodness this is over with. My case is dismissed. I'm on probation," whatever it may be. "I'm so happy right now I don't have to go to jail. I'm writing this review." A lot of the time, it's that relationship we have with people over the phone. It's customer service. It's a five-star experience that we give people. If I have someone over the phone that's like, "Thank you so much for taking the time to listen to me," I'm like, "It would mean a lot to me if you could leave us a five-star view about your experience today." I don't care if they go to Subway for lunch or go somewhere else for another experience; regardless of whatever they have lined up during the day, their experience with us will be the best experience they've had. I'm going to make sure of that. When that happens, I want people to be able to feel comfortable leaving us reviews. I think that comes from just pride ourselves on having that type of experience with our firm. Our attorneys do a very good job at getting those in court after court dispositions. We have a workflow in place to follow up a couple of months down the road. Now that the dust is settled, "How are you doing? How's your family?" I know that's super important. It goes back to just the wonderful people who answer our phones here at the firm. I mean, they're just incredible.
SONYA PALMER
To create a thriving culture, employees need the resources to flourish, both in work and family life. Bresha explains how her firm leans into their family values.
BRESHA SHEPHERD:
We have a lot of women in our law firm, and that's super important. I think because of that; we are super flexible with working moms and working parents. We were just voted one of the top four places for working moms. For anyone that's hired, we like to give that space to flourish in that role. If it's not necessarily something they were hired for, what can we best use them for? It's important that we give them that space where they can make it their own but also feel empowered and feel like a leader in that certain role. You don't have to be a managing partner or a named partner at a law firm to be a leader or to step forward and show future generations what this role could look like. It all comes down to being the best at what you're capable of doing and then thriving in that role. We work for a family business.
SONYA PALMER
Yes.
BRESHA SHEPHERD:
Its family always comes first with us. It's always family over everything. It does not matter the circumstance, and family will always come first. It's part of our mission statement. We all have each other's back, and we continue to grow. With growth, there are growing pains. At the end of the day, if people understand what we're here to do, we have a purpose. We can really thrive with that and thrive with the job roles that we have and the people we have in place.
SONYA PALMER
Absolutely. I think people can get really granular on culture and what good culture is, but at the end of the day, if you have good leadership that is willing to inspire empowerment.
BRESHA SHEPHERD:
Yes.
SONYA PALMER
Okay. "What do you value as my team? What is valuable to you, it's family."
BRESHA SHEPHERD:
Yes.
SONYA PALMER
Excellent. Then, "I value you; how do I get your best at whatever it is," it's an excellent recipe for good culture.
BRESHA SHEPHERD:
Absolutely. I think sometimes, too, law firm owners just in our area kind of don't understand how important it is to have staff that is those supporting actresses and supporting roles for our world-class trial attorneys. Every specific position is so important. If your job doesn't get done, like our world-class trial attorney, Christy Jack, she wouldn't be able to be who she is without everyone in their supporting roles. Just because you're this partner, just because you're a receptionist, everyone is a part of a family here, and we all are treated equally. We all bring our own unique skillset to make us grow and have success.
SONYA PALMER
I loved the supporting actors and actresses, new hires you mentioned, and then you're also talking about a rockstar, badass attorneys.
BRESHA SHEPHERD:
Mm-hmm.
SONYA PALMER
How do you maintain that culture across all of those?
BRESHA SHEPHERD:
One thing our attorneys here do very well is they make our staff, and anyone who's not an attorney really included and feel like they are part of a team. Without this team, we wouldn't have the success that we do.
SONYA PALMER
Mm-hmm.
BRESHA SHEPHERD:
That's super important. We are all kind of in this together, and that's what makes us thrive.
SONYA PALMER
Yes, that makes sense. It sounds like you're naturally just cultivating ownership and accountability, which is getting everyone on the team to have buy-in.
BRESHA SHEPHERD:
Yeah.
SONYA PALMER
How do you make sure everybody's on the same page?
BRESHA SHEPHERD:
It's so hard sometimes to understand if people have that buy-in. We put things in place. We have weekly team huddles and meetings and training every Wednesday. We also have quarterly meetings to ensure, "Hey, if this isn't something that you feel that you want any more, just let us know." Our partners have been so awesome at just having that conversation with us. We will help you get to where you want to go. A perfect example of that is one of our associates came in, and she told us from the very beginning she wanted to be a federal public defender, which is one of the hardest jobs to get here in Tarrant County, Dallas County. She wanted to get that experience and, "Hey, we will be that stepping stone for you. We will help you get there." I think that's so important when you have leadership that is, "If this isn't the right fit for you and if you're not bought into us, where can we help? Where can we help you get to where you want to be?" Obviously, that comes from the top down.
SONYA PALMER
Sure.
BRESHA SHEPHERD:
That's something that my eight years, almost eight years being here, that has been instilled in us every single day.
SONYA PALMER
What do you do when you need to decompress? Take some time for yourself.
BRESHA SHEPHERD:
I do have a dog at home and a wonderful husband, and they're my pride and joy. I love them dearly, and they're kind of my rock. I lost my mom a couple of years ago, and it just kind of rocked my world. My other passion is helping people and being an advocate, and living through my mom's legacy. "Here, let's support one another. Let's get through this together," because, you know, cancer's everywhere.
SONYA PALMER
If you want a team of 'A' players in every position, make sure that they feel empowered and supported in making their own decisions. Help employees are the best version of themselves. Even if they do not stay with your firm long term, you will have gotten the most out of your hires. A big thank you to Bresha for sharing her story and unbelievable insights with us today. You have been listening to LawHer with me, Sonya Palmer. If you found this content insightful, inspiring, or just made you smile, please show this episode with the tribes in your life. For more about Bresha Shepherd, check out our show notes. Why you're there, please leave us a review or five-star rating. It really goes a long way for others to discover the show. I will see you next week on LawHer, where we'll shed light on how another of the brightest and boldest women in the legal industry climbed to the top of her field.
