Noemi Puntier
You want to be the best advocate, we're humans and we get overwhelmed and there's a lot of responsibilities that are placed in our shoulders. So just being mindful of the triggers, so you can be your best version to your client and ultimately recognizing that one decision that you made. Not only would they have an effect on that client, but for generations to come.
Sonya Palmer
What you do as an attorney matters, come to know yourself well enough to know when you need to take a step back and acknowledge when you need help.
Noemi Puntier
The decisions that you make on a case where the two plead out when you're telling you don't want to do the extra research when you're too tired and you don't want to talk about an alternative. Just remember how would this matter to this individual in 10 years? Because it will.
Sonya Palmer
According to a recent survey, only 19% of managing partners in US law firms are female. We would like to see that change. Hello and welcome LawHer the show where we celebrate the trailblazing attorneys and entrepreneurs who are changing the game for women in the legal field. Be inspired by their stories, learn from their mistakes and look forward to the future they're helping build for the next generation of women in law. I'm Sonya Palmer, your host and VP of operations at Rankings, the SEO agency of choice for personal injury lawyers. This is LawHer. The founding attorney of Puntier Law Firm, Noemi Puntier has always used the legal space as a catalyst for positive change. Her career began at the Legal Aid Society where she honed her true passion, - reaching underserved young women. Her firm opened in 2010 and as a community hub, that takes a holistic approach to immigration and personal injury law. In today's episode, we discuss avoiding burnout to best serve your clients, investing in yourself early and often and carving space, not just for yourself, but for those who come after you. Opening a law firm can help an attorney find herself and it is clear that no Emmy's tenacity and vision have led her to where she is today. Let's dive in.
Noemi Puntier
I had the biggest job fair in the Bronx, New York. And I will say, wow, I can impact lives this way. And when I realized that I wanted to do more, but my options were very limited. And that's when I said, I'm going to go to law school because that's what we do. You find a problem and then you get a solution and that's what I did.
Sonya Palmer
You had a goal in mind when you started your legal career?
Noemi Puntier
I did. I wanted to be an advocate. I wanted to help the underserved and I wanted to make a difference because I had a family member that went through the justice system and that impacted my family greatly for many years. And I wanted to make sure that what I was doing was different and that I was going to be a voice for the voiceless and do bigger things than what I was doing as a social worker at a non-for-profit.
Sonya Palmer
Here you are. How did you decide on Hofstra for your JD?
Noemi Puntier
It was local because it's in long island and this is my second career. I was already married and I wanted to make sure that I can drive to school and back home. And that's where I landed. Plus my mentor, judge, Sally Manson that graduated from there and I wanted to follow in her footsteps. Now it was perfect.
Sonya Palmer
Why was she your mentor? How was that relationship?
Noemi Puntier
She is the woman that saw in me what I didn't see in myself and she is the woman that opened that door that was closed for many years. And she actually made me believe and understand and feel and know that I can make a difference. And that my background growing up in the ghetto and being a woman and being a minority and being an immigrant was actually my power tool and not a deficiency. And she made a hard business to make sure that I got into law school and that I became a great advocate for others and that I carry on her mantle of just paying it forward and seeing the beauty that we all carry within us that sometimes we're not able to see ourselves because of our surrounding and upbringings.
Sonya Palmer
Everything you just said creates an uphill. So what were some of the biggest challenges you encountered on that path?
Noemi Puntier
Not knowing lawyers. I think when I decide, I know when I decided to become a lawyer, I knew no lawyer. So not knowing what it looked like going to law school financially, emotionally having a second career. And that having that mentor on the onset not knowing, not having my confidence level really high and also the educational system. I went to public school in the ghetto. So clearly my efforts to get into law school there, I had to work harder. And I had to discipline myself. And this was the second career I was older going into law school. So those were just some of the roadblocks aside from, the identity crisis that you go through because you're a woman and you're a minority and you went to public school and you probably don't write as well as the 20 year old, that's sitting next to you and why anyone hire me when I graduate? So those are just some of the few roadblocks, but those are the things that make you the kind of lawyer and advocate that you want to become. Cause you develop the tenacity and the, and then you have a different goal and a different vision and a different empowerment. So then you can go out and do big things that are meaningful.
Sonya Palmer
Yes. I love all of that. Particularly the idea of working harder, like just hard work, just getting it done and being able to persevere. So a little bit about law school. So was it what you were expecting now, what you were expecting?
Noemi Puntier
Not what I was expecting. Law school was hell!!
Sonya Palmer
I've heard that.
Noemi Puntier
It feels , and I've never joined the army, god bless those people that do. I have a special place in my heart for them, but it feels like you're going through like a bootcamp the first year. And you've lost and forgot every sense of school because it's you don't write the same. You don't read the same. You don't study the same and no one tells you anything. It's you're just blocked from society. Just do you and read the syllabus or read this book and yeah it's terrifying. It's terrifying.
Sonya Palmer
What would you say to young women thinking about going into law school? What are some advice you would give.
Noemi Puntier
They should definitely do it. I think the law field needs more women in this field women that are able to bring different experiences, life experiences, to the table, different compassion, a different feeling to negotiations. And just to the field itself, while in law school, it's very difficult your first year it's just the rites of passage. The minute you get into your second year. You're flying and being the attorney just gives you so many different platforms, but you can have such an impact not just on society, but also, in, in the legal field. And politics is just, it's a tool that you can utilize in different jobs, depending on what your mission and vision is for your world. For your career, what do you see your future to be like? And it's a tool that can be utilized in so many different scenarios.
Sonya Palmer
Are there other resources that you would recommend?
Noemi Puntier
My daughter, she's going to law school. And one of the things I said to her was I said two things. One, make sure you develop the the ability to sit at a table for a long time. I grew up very poor. I went to public school, so there was no such thing as sit at the table and study or go to the library and study for two hours. So it's I study one hour, then I wanted a coffee break or a Coke break. Or let me just call my mom and law school. You need discipline and you need endurance and you need to master and you can give up so quickly. So I'm teaching her that when you sit to study, try to, pace yourself, push yourself to an hour before you have to go on social media or before you, you get a drink, like just start building the statement of that. You're going to need for law school. That's number one. And number two, she's majoring in journalism because I think it's important that you're able to read for a long period of time in different books and be well versed in communicating and listening and interpreting what you're reading. So those are two tips, which I give my own daughter. So I'm not, I'm giving it to your listeners.
Sonya Palmer
Yes, no. I love that. I think being able to focus and that works against what society and media would like from us. They don't want us to focus. They want us to be distracted. So I think that's very good advice to learn how to focus and be disciplined so that you can sit and absorb all that information. After graduating, you quickly joined the legal aid society. What drew you to that organization?
Noemi Puntier
It was my mission to be, to serve my community better. My own family member went through the justice system and the way that the attorney behaved and the decisions that she made and the lack of communication had a great impact on our lives and just how everything turned out. So I made a promise to myself that if I had an opportunity to go back and redo that experience for other clients, I would. And also because I was servicing the people that looked like me, the people that were being taken advantage of, and that really had no faith in the justice system. So I wanted to be the advocate that says, look, even though I'm a public defender, I don't have the same reputation. I will return your phone call. You will be involved in your case. I will not clean you out without your consent or your knowledge of what's going on. That's in your case with you. If we need to go to trial, we're going to go to trial and we're going to fight a good fight. It's just, it was my opportunity to give people that what I thought was missing from my family member and also I'm a trial lawyer by heart I love trying cases and being a public defender in the Bronx, that was like the best scenario you are not going to get paid well, But you were going to be trying cases very quickly if you had the desire and the resources were unlimited. So those were my two reasons for going into the legal aid society. It was the best thing I did and I love being a lawyer. And if I can do it again, I would do it again a thousand times.
Sonya Palmer
Even though law school was hell.
Noemi Puntier
Yes.
Sonya Palmer
I love that. I love what you say, just for people to have representation, legal representation that looks like them, or is a female I think is so important.
Noemi Puntier
I'm glad you're here.
Sonya Palmer
Yes. I love being here. I love talking to all of you. It's amazing. Can you walk us through like how you landed that position after law school?
Noemi Puntier
You have to make, you have to network. That's the one thing, especially as a minority, we don't come with a family member that was an attorney or that work that a law firm. So where does disadvantage to a certain degree and we have to be intentional with our actions and we have to be laser focused. So you have to be a planner, you can't wait for your last year to say, wow, I, this is what I want to do early on. You need to start doing some soul searching, speaking to some mentors, women, not necessarily a woman that looked like you, but a woman that are in positions of what you want to be at. Cause that's the whole goal. Let's sit at the table with the woman that envisioned my future self. When I was growing up the table was not there. We can say that anymore. Now that there is tables, there are attorneys that look like myself and like you that are creating the opportunities for these other young women that are up and coming attorneys. So that's number one, you need to start networking. You need to get your feet wet into doing some, and some internships and picking the right internship. So you can start deciphering. Do I want to be a public defendant. Do I want to be a corporate lawyer? So I knew from very early on where, how my heartbeat is beating to the legal system. So I knew very, I was ready, clear that being a public defender is what I want to do. Cause I was on a mission to prove. to society that public defenders could be great and that we can make an impact and we can represent the people that are coming through our justice system. So it's just determining really what where you envisioned yourself being that planner, being that visionary, doing the research, going to the conferences, listening to podcasts like yourself. That's you got invest in yourself early on.
Sonya Palmer
I had just got back from the Women In Trial Travel Summit was a. Oh, it was amazing. You can have to CA I think she's going to do it again. And so everything you just said, like it was, so I don't even know how to explain it because it's everything you just said. It's a networking event, but it's, it was so much more than that developing a community and just being able to meet everyone and see the support. So I agree. I think conferences and stuff like that is so valuable and yes, you definitely have to come next year on. Yes. And that, What lessons did you learn at legal aid society that then carried you through your practice?
Noemi Puntier
Take a break when you're burned out. I, one of the promises of commitment that I also told myself was okay, the day that you're too aggravated or you're upset to return. Phone call. That's a sign. You either need to stop doing what you're doing, or you need to take a break. So being tuned into the little things to aggravate you, because you want to be your best version at all times. You want to be the best advocate, we're humans and we get overwhelmed and there's a lot of responsibilities that are placed in our shoulders. So just being mindful of the triggers, so you can be your best version to your client and ultimately recognizing that one decision that you made. Not only would they have an effect on that client, but for generations to come. And that's something that I think attorneys, we forget how impactful we are, what the consequences, the effect that we have in other people's lives. So the one advice that you give to a client could affect a generation to come, the way that you speak to one person. The decisions that you make on a case where the two plead out when you're telling you don't want to do the extra research when you're too tired and you don't want to talk about an alternative Just remember how would this matter to this individual in 10 years? Because it will, and I think we forget to remind ourselves to give ourselves that grace, that what we do matters and the impact that we have in society, politics, human beings. It is tremendous. And we have to be responsive when we have to know when to take a step back and we have to acknowledge when we do wrong and when we need help.
Sonya Palmer
I think that's an excellent reminder because it's your job. It's something you do every day, but. To your clients, they, how often do they work with an attorney with a lawyer? And I think you're right. I think you forget how powerful and impactful you really are. So I think that's an excellent thing to be aware of. Where did you go after legal aid society and what prompted that?
Noemi Puntier
Money and burn out.
Sonya Palmer
Two good reasons.
Noemi Puntier
I'm just being extremely transparent. I think, you know that I knew very well why I wanted the legal aid society. I was also very conscious of what I didn't want to be. And when I got burned out and I wasn't being my best version to my clients, I knew it was time to move myself out of that space. And economically I wanted to grow a family. I wanted to move out of the ghetto because as an attorney, I was still living where my clients were washing their clothes. . And this just goes to show that I don't know, who's listening to this and what, maybe one of our listeners, daughters is listening to this just goes to show that it doesn't matter where you come from, as long as you have the tenacity and the drive and just stay aligned and constantly seek your vision and your desires and your dream. It could come to fruition because. So fresh and for me, and economically, financially, I couldn't afford it. It somehow I was able to do it. And still as an attorney, I was residing in the same place where I grew up because financially I was not able to move out from that space. I did, a couple of years after, but these are just some of the sacrifices. So the second reason is I wanted more money to grow my family and to have a safer environment to live in. So I went to do personal injury for an extremely successful wall street law firm, they're huge. In Manhattan and that was night and day. I had two receptionists. I have people making photocopies for me and I felt very strange. I was like what do you mean? What do you mean I have to secretary? What do you mean? Somebody is making my appointments. Like what, why come from legal aid? You're prepping, you're making copies. You're making your own coffee. You're not working to 10 o'clock at night, if you don't, if you just because the apartment's not there. So it was night and day and that lasted one year and I think it was very clear very clear for me. My passion did not lie in just a financial gain. I needed to be in touch with the world and with society and what my heart will start beating for a better sense of community. And after a year I went on my own.
Sonya Palmer
You went on your own. Yes. Walk us through that. Starting your own firm.
Noemi Puntier
Oh, that was refreshing. I think that's when you really start finding yourself, that's when you're like, okay, so I can make this happen and you start making choices for what's important to you. Whether you want to be a stay-at-home mom, you want to work part time. Whether you want to be this goal getter, that's working to make my every day. And you may you're in a position to make choices and to make decisions that will impact your future and impact . Society. And that was very framed because it was getting into a group, a rights of passage, a thing, but it was just the beginning that was over 15 years ago. And there's no stopping you. There's no limit for growth. And now that I'm, pushing 50 it's when I can say, wow, there's so much more left for me to accomplish and to bring my daughter in, obviously into the business to be that powerhouse attorney trailblazer. TableBuilder just everything that us woman could accomplish. But it takes work and it doesn't happen overnight, but it's a great journey.
Sonya Palmer
As you said, 15 years, do you feel like the landscape has changed for women wanting to start their own firm? And if so, how.
Noemi Puntier
It has, I think we're more confident. I think there's more opportunities, but aside from the opportunities, I just think we're seeing different role models. When we see the vice president of the United States, that looks like us, she's a woman. And a woman of color, then you start saying, oh, I think there's something here. I think I there's some opportunity for me to do that. So I think when you start exposing yourself to the possibilities of all these other power women that came before us, and now we're rising up the shoulders, I think the time is now. I think now we can benefit from that I think we can benefit from the movement in the legal field and in society where it says we need to give this person an opportunity. We're going to give her that platform, podcasts like yourselves, that you're like, I'm highlighting business woman that are movers and shakers that, they're looking fabulous that are very stylish and that are doing amazing things. And they're not compromising the working to midnight to make. Are you kidding me? If I'm going to work 12 hours for you? Let me, let me work for myself. I think also, the theme has changed the narrative that you need to make partner, and you need to bring in these amount of cases. There's women attorneys that are just hanging then she goes straight out of law school. Excuse me, social media. See, I don't need to spend $5,000 on a TV commercial. I'm going to do it from my home studio and I'm going to bring in the money. So I think, the landscape, the social media, it just, everything's society is just it's our time. We're here for such a time as this and it's, we're on stoppable at this point.
Sonya Palmer
Yes. Sarah Williams, who was our first guest, talked about
Noemi Puntier
I am her biggest fan.
Sonya Palmer
She's amazing. But she talks about that with social media and the barrier to entry. And now anyone has access to these tools, and it's just completely even the playing field and I'm I love seeing all of that. So I'm here for it.
Noemi Puntier
And she's building a table for my daughter's generation. Like my daughter follows her. And I've never spoken to her personally. I've been to many of our conferences, but I feel like I know her because I resonate with our struggle as a mom, as a woman, as an attorney. And she's Very real. What it is, and she's telling you if I can do it, you can do it. And that's the difference. W we're seeing a lot of our own images out there on social media and just opportunities. Conferences are giving opportunity to voice like Sarah Williams are saying, come on board, and we need more of that. We need more Sarah Williams, right? That's going to go out there and going to say, Hey, I have a table. Come sit with me.
Sonya Palmer
Amazing. Anything you wish you would've known when you were starting your firm any mistakes that you feel like you're made or anything you're super proud of? Like any specific success?
Noemi Puntier
Yeah I'm super proud of just taking the leap of faith. I think we undermine ourselves underestimate ourselves and think that other people are doing it right. And I just want to clarify. No one really knows what they're doing. So you need a business coach, everything on social media is not accurate at all times, and when you see the powerhouse attorney being in different places at different times, she's walked hard. She's she has a nanny. She has a cleaning lady. Let's be realistic with what we can do in 24 hours. So my biggest thing will be just be your authentic self. You can do it seek mentorship definitely seek mentorship and no one really. The secret formula you got to put in the work and that's a space and a place and a voice and a community for all of us. We're all different. And we, and everybody, there's always someone out there that needs what we have. So let's give it to them.
Sonya Palmer
Noemi is creating space for her community on social media once a week in a video segment, she calls Cafe con Leyes, Spanish for coffee with loss. She explains how these seemingly simple episodes empower her community.
Noemi Puntier
I'm a big coffee drinker, so I can drink like four cups a day. And I love to educate the immigrant community. I think this is a deficiency in accurate information, this and I want to make sure that I have that. People have a seat at my table. So it's law and coffee. It's basically where I drink coffee and I bring a topic that's important to my community members, so they can be equipped. They can be educated and they can be empowered with that information. So that's, it's a 10 minute give and take show. And we have coffee together. Yeah.
Sonya Palmer
Okay, good. Oh,
Noemi Puntier
know what? I'm. guided to all my tables.
Sonya Palmer
Yeah. Are there any other marketing strategies that you have found effective?
Noemi Puntier
Yes. Just being yourself. If anyone wants to follow me on Instagram is Hills in the court. Just being yourself. People want to be entertained. People also want to see your real self that the world has changed. So we just, you just have to be mindful what works for you and what works for your audience and, and grow what, what, the times we have to be able to mold and shape instead of, go with the flow when the times, because that's what the world expects. And as long as we keep our integrity and our personalities just be yourself. That's an audience for.
Sonya Palmer
Being immigration lawyers as your, from bilingual.
Noemi Puntier
Yes, but we also have attorneys that don't speak Spanish. So we we love everyone. As long as you have a good heart and integrity and a passion to help you don't need to speak Spanish. That's, we can translate. So yeah, we are a melting pot here. If you may.
Sonya Palmer
I love that. And then you're very open about your face. Can you talk about how your faith guides you and your law practice?
Noemi Puntier
I just feel that coming from extremely humble beginnings being an immigrant from the Dominican Republic, growing up in the ghetto and now, be in what I will consider successful. Obviously everyone has a different definition of success. The, my, my faith has played a big role in just maintaining me. Grounded to what's important being kind, having integrity, having a moral compass, being inclusive, not so much judgemental, but being really following the character for me, which is the character prize, which is someone that love and respect of how you looked, what your gender I made. All of these confuses that we have in the world. The God that I love is the guy that was. Not look at any of those things is redemptive and it's empowering and it's loving. And that's just part of my character. I love to love. I don't care who you are. You need love. I'm going to love you. I love to serve. If I need to serve you, I'm going to start a view. And it just keeps me grounded into what's important. I'm here for a season and a time. And while I'm here, I want to make sure that it's purposeful and I have an impact and I create a legacy and that I can help everyone. Every respective of your gender, your identity, your. Yeah, whatever it is, like I just want to serve. And I think he keeps me grounded in knowing what's good and what's real and what's possible. And just being a better human for the world.
Sonya Palmer
Amen.
Noemi Puntier
Yes I love it. It's what keeps me happy.
Sonya Palmer
Yes in that's where Girl Lawyer on a Mission started. It sounds like that's your other passion is reaching undeserved young women. Can you tell us a little about that?
Noemi Puntier
Yes. I think women were created in a way that we are loving. We have feelings that are expressed differently than a male, and we are nurturers and we create life. We bring life into this world. So we're very special in that regard. And I think we have to nurture that. And in my experience, most of the girls that are in jail, there has been a past trauma. At times leads them to make those mistakes and be where thryre at. And I just want to be a shining light, obviously with my Bible in hand just being the light in a dark situation. So it's my way of giving back to those people that are in jail and custody. And that just need to hear some good news, just sitting there with someone and just, listening to them or bringing them something that they need, whatever it is, a visit, a Christmas card. Those are the little things that make a difference and I'm just on a mission to just make humanity better and loving because I think love solves a lot of the issues that we have in society.
Sonya Palmer
Great. Where would you like to see that in five years?
Noemi Puntier
I would love to have permission to go into the jail and donate Bibles and donate Jesus calling and set up A program where we monitor these young woman. Not some, not so much when they're in jail, but when they come out of the jail system and just partner up with them and see when they go back out in society, how they're doing that will be my five-year goal. If I can get that accomplished, set up a not-for-profit with. That is being done and rashly parting to this woman and having a conference of female attorneys that are willing to financially and emotionally give back to those women in prison. That's that would be my five-year goal.
Sonya Palmer
The inequity or representation in the legal field is glaring. What do you see as a viable way to make effective change?
Noemi Puntier
I think we just have to go out and vote properly. I think a lot of the judges, a lot of the people that make the decision who gets appointed or who goes, who, who gets on the bench, we should be knowing who we voting for her we're supporting, and we just have to encourage our daughters to like myself, I, my daughter, she's going to be a lawyer and she's amazing. And just letting them know that it's possible. I think also as successful woman, we should be responsible for paying a, for economical. Financially finding that avenue where we can pour into other females so they could afford to go to law school and given opportunities when it's time to find a job is going to take time. I think we have a caste system in our brain as to what a lawyer looks like. I always like to tell the story. When I walk into a court room, they think I'm the interpreter. And, it's just a societal thought that's ingrained in our system and we need to start changing that. And that's not going to happen if I dont raise daughters to then be where other people want to be.
Sonya Palmer
Focused on the next generation. I like that. I love that.
Noemi Puntier
Definitely.
Sonya Palmer
You talked about burnout.
Noemi Puntier
Yes.
Sonya Palmer
What are some things, what are some ways that you decompress that you try to get rid of stress?
Noemi Puntier
For me is to read my Bible studies. I, my time with God is non-negotiable in the morning, the same way that I get up at five to be at the gym at five 30. Before I start my day, I have to give Jesus an hour. So I drink coffee. I, for some people could be meditation. I think just, journaling, writing down your thoughts whatever religion you're in, just being synchronized with your vision and just the person you want to become giving yourself grace and just reminding yourself of the goodness that exists in this world. And we need, I need that hour in the morning before I start being busy and going out. So that's what I do. And on Fridays, if I can read a good book, I try to read a book a week. That's also very difficult to do read a good book with a cup of coffee in my couch. That's the way I do it. I also have coaches. I have a faith based coach that I meet with twice a week and that keeps me grounded. So burnout is definitely a thing and it doesn't always get fixed with exercise. I think sometimes we need extra help, whether it's a therapist, whether it's a business coach whether it's taking a walk or whether it's just journaling and it does exist. And I think we should all find what brings us joy and do that more often.
Sonya Palmer
Yes. What are some of your favorite books? Have you read anything good lately?
Noemi Puntier
Oh my goodness. So I'm reading that Atomic Habbit and I'm obsessed.
Sonya Palmer
Yeah. His newsletter James Clear's newsletter is also fantastic.
Noemi Puntier
I'm just like, oh my goodness. So. that's the one that I'm currently reading. And I do have to say I'm a Badass At Making Money
Sonya Palmer
Oh,
Noemi Puntier
by Jen Sinccero. I think it's the, her last name.
Sonya Palmer
Yeah.
Noemi Puntier
I'm a badass at making money.
Sonya Palmer
That one down.
Noemi Puntier
Yeah, my coach was like, you need to read that because you're having problems increasing your prices.
Sonya Palmer
A little motivation. love it.
Noemi Puntier
I'm like, us woman, we think differently about money than men. He said, yeah we heard about she's a female. She talks about it. So that's a very good book for anyone that's just wants to get up and do it. These are. Little tips, little things that you can read. If you don't implement them, then it goes to waste. So you have to make sure you find the time to implement what you learn.
Sonya Palmer
Mentor relationships can help us at every stage -from law school to opening and growing a practice. Noemi's mentor helped her to reframe her roadblocks as superpowers. Allowing her to become a fierce advocate for others while crafting her vision. She carries on the tradition today through her work with Girl Lawyer on a Mission. Noemi is a wonderful example of paying it forward and helping others realize their vision. A huge, thank you to Noemi for sharing her story and unbelievable insights with us today. You have been listening to LawHer me, Sonya Palmer. If you found this content insightful, inspiring, or it just made you smile. Please share this episode with the trailblazer in your life for more about Noemi and check out our show notes and while you're there, please leave us a review or a five star rating. It really goes a long way for others to discover the show. And I will see you next week on LawHer. Where will shed light on how another of the brightest and boldest women in the legal industry climbed to the top of her field.
