Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
Whether or not you are intentional, when people think of you, they think of something and you can either take control over the narrative, or it's left to default.
Sonya Palmer
Whether or not you've vdefined it - your brand exists.
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
Our clients are not just comparing us to other law firms. They are comparing us to their consumer experiences across a broad range of services. And if they can get a pizza by pressing a button in five minutes, and then you want them to come in and sign a document with their blood and sweat and tears, 25 miles away. You're losing people.
Sonya Palmer
According to a recent survey, only 19% of managing partners in US law firms are female. We'd like to see that change. Hello, and welcome to LawHER, the show where we celebrate the trailblazing attorneys and entrepreneurs who are changing the game for women in the legal field. Be inspired by their stories. Learn from their mistakes. And look forward to the future they're helping build for the next generation of women in law. I'm Sonya Palmer, your host and VP of Operations at Rankings. The SEO agency of choice for Personal Injury lawyers. This is LawHER. In 2018 - only 1% of women-owned businesses broke a million dollars in revenue. Today's guest is in that one percent. Meet Jennifer Gore owner of Atlanta Personal Injury Law Group. Her firm - one of the fastest growing in America - boasts four offices across Georgia, is ranked 10 Best in Client Satisfaction from American Institute of Personal Injury Attorney’s, and holds Avvo's client choice award. Today Jennifer offers her wisdom on building a personal brand and opening yourself to opportunities to how she built her firm with a newborn. Prior to law school, Jennifer heard how challenging it could be - but she did not let the stories deter her ambition. Let's dive in.
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
I really did have to buckle down in law school. For me, like high school and college was, I don't feel like I put a hundred percent in, I was, I've talked about this in the past, but I've worked a lot. I always worked in high school. I worked in college, in law school, I was going into it thinking like, I'm not, I'm gonna have to like really put my all in on this one, because there's less people who go to law school and it's more competitive. And so I went in being very serious. And then when I got in there it, my particular law school experience was probably different than some other students because I went to like a night law school and my school was very strict on attendance. So I have a lot of friends that went to law school and they just had to show up for the exam. My school was if you miss this many classes, you're out. So you know, it wasn't like a walk in the park, but I was just very committed and very I'm here, I'm serious. And I'm going get every single thing I can out of this experience a graduate. And feel like I didn't leave any experiences on the table. So I, I personally gave myself that experience in law school because I took it very seriously. And I was clear from day one that I wanted to own the law firm.
Sonya Palmer
You set your own expectations. because you did it at night a little bit, like not traditional. Did you feel like you had a support group? Were there any mentors that you had?
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
So I was originally accepted into the day program, but they told me I couldn't work so that's why I switched into the night program. And what I loved about the night program is those people were very serious. Because they're professionals, they are working in law firms. They're working in other industries and they're very mature. And so I had so many friends, lifelong friends that I still, keep in touch with from that program. And I think no matter what. Law class you're in you bond with those students because it's a very bonding experience. Did I have mentors? I developed mentors through working and I was a mentor to other law students their time. As you go up, you can volunteer to be a mentor. And I had people who were, who helped me along the way, but. You have to constantly find and evolve and create new mentors.
Sonya Palmer
Yes. Sometimes when you're a mentor or a leader, you learn more lessons by teaching others than get passed down to you from other mentors. Do you have any lessons that you can think of either that you learned from being a mentor or that someone instilled in you.
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
so I think you should find mentors as people that have the results that you are looking to get, and that will change all throughout. Lifetime as your goals evolve and what you're trying to do. In law school, I tried to find people who are having success in law school and ask them questions. And I try to find lawyers that were having success and ask them questions. So I would just say, find people that are emulating what you're looking to achieve and I've never had somebody say to me, they wouldn't help me. If I was bold enough to go ask for their help.
Sonya Palmer
Yes.
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
It's very flattering when someone says, oh my gosh, I look up to you. I wanna have the results you have. Can you help me? It's very rare that someone would say no.
Sonya Palmer
I think that's good insight, cuz I think it's very true. Like how often really, if someone comes to you sincerely and. I could really use your help, gonna be like, no . So I think that's good insight. So you went all in on law school and you made it really easy for people to recommend opportunities for you. Can you explain what that means and how you do it?
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
So I think it goes back to thinking of yourself as a brand. And when people are thinking of an internship or an opportunity to go work in a law firm, you wanna be the person that is an easy recommendation oh, she's reliable, she's responsible. She's gonna show up. She's gonna, she's gonna do the work. You can position yourself through branding yourself in your reputation and how you present yourself in a lot of different varieties to be somebody who is a great recommendation for people to make. And I think if you're that strategic, it's pretty simple. It's pretty easy to start getting a lot of opportunities coming your way. Not only you gotta be bold enough to ask, Hey, if you hear of an internship, if you hear of an externship, if you hear of a job, I'm looking, you have to be responsive. If somebody sends some opportunity or referral your way, and then you don't reply, or you ignore then. They're gonna say is that gonna be what they do when I send an opportunity to them or a client that needs help? 90% of people aren't thinking like that. So if you're like in the 10% that do, how can you not win?
Sonya Palmer
I agree with you. The things that you mentioned are not complicated to do, be reliable, be dependable, be responsive, and they're super important. And are there any other sort of actionable items that you can think of that would help grant opportunities?
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
I really go back to this a lot, but being bold, like I think people need to voice, this is what I'm looking to do. This is the opportunity I'm looking for. And you need to either go knock on the door of the person who has that and ask if they will help you, or you need to put the word on the street. And I think so many people are like hesitant to put it out there or they're afraid they're gonna be judged or they feel insecure. But I think you have to be bold in asking the universe and the world for what you And you'll be so shocked that. It will happen. Like when I started my law firm, I immediately started asking everyone to send me their personal injury referrals and the power of speaking for what you want and putting it out in the universe. It really works it,
Sonya Palmer
Developing a personal brand early on was really important to you. Did that come intuitively or did you have spark of inspiration?
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
It just came intuitively. When I was in law school, I was involved in the student government and I was like the treasurer. And then I was the student body president and I had to, run on a campaign and create a brand. do that. But I was always thinking like when I graduate and I opened my own law firm, what is my brand gonna be? And I would always tell people like, I'm going to only personal injury law firm. So I was always thinking of myself in terms of those things and talking about it. So I think you, the mistake you see a lot of people is that they're all over the place with their brand and the human mind needs to be able to. Where do I place you? What referral box do I put you in? And that's, that can be complicated because we're all multidimensional.
Sonya Palmer
People getcaught up in making sure that they're marketing to the specific demographic that they want and those lines can get blurry. So I think you're, I think it has to accurately depict who you are and emphasize that. Do you feel like it's ever too early for a lawyer to develop a personal brand? Do you need to wait until you're a partner or anything like that?
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
Absolutely not because the reality is a brand around you exists, whether or not you are intentional, whether or not you've defined it. When people think of you, they think of something and you can either take control over that image that the narrative, or you can just. Say I don't have a personal brand and it's left to default we see that across the entertainment industry, you mentioned several female business owners and people out there that are doing a lot of different things and they have very clear personal brands. That we're not just created out of happenstance.
Sonya Palmer
Yes. What are some of the key elements in a successful self brand?
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
I really can't speak to anyone else's other than what I've done with myself, but I think it needs to ring true to you. It's like when you develop a law firm, what do you stand for? What inspires you? What are the words people would use to describe you and your brand and what's important to you?
Sonya Palmer
You are attorney and founder of Atlanta personal injury law group, as well as a business coach for women entrepreneurs. Can you walk us down the path that you took and how you knew it was time to open your own firm?
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
So I actually opened the firm the day I got my license
Sonya Palmer
Nice.
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
Yeah, that we use the word bolding in, honestly you have to remember I don't find any of these things to be bold. This is just this is what I'm doing. So I failed the bar the first time and I was like three months pregnant with my daughter. And I failed the bar and I found out when I was like five months pregnant and I was devastated and I failed it by like very one point or so. And so then I had to take the bar again, like immediately. And so I had to take it. When I was nine months pregnant. And so that was a very do or die situation for me, because I was like, I can't do this again with an infant, so I passed it that time. And so the moment I got my license, I was like, I'm done I'm opening this law firm. And so she was like two months old when I started the firm.
Sonya Palmer
Wow!
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
But I felt like I had gone through so much that I was just ready to. To get the firm going, going.
Sonya Palmer
That's a lot. Did you have any fears? Of course, around opening a firm with a two month old, a quick turnaround time. What were some of your fears? How did you overcome them?
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
Like when I think back to that time I didn't have a lot of fears, I felt like I graduated law school, I got my license. Like all the hard stuff was fine. This is now what I'm meant to do is own a law firm. I was working as a personal injury paralegal for three years through law school. I was very confident that I could either do the work or I could figure out how to do the work. And I think. A lot of people think I need to know every single thing before I start a law firm. But no, you need to know how to figure out or find the contact or the person that can help you. I still learn things every single day, but I do rely on my ability to figure things out.
Sonya Palmer
i think resourceful ness is a very undervalued quality in people.
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
It's such an important.
Sonya Palmer
Yes,
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
How resourceful are, I am hella resourceful.
Sonya Palmer
same.
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
gave me enough time. I will find someone that will figure that problem out.
Sonya Palmer
Yes. And especially today, when you have so much access to information on your phone, like you can literally just Google something and gain access to what you need. YouTube videos mentors, it's easier than ever to develop networks. So I think that resourcefulness is very undervalued and yes, I, you might not know, but that's okay. Figure it out.
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
Yeah. And I think my experiences as a personal injury paralegal, I remember being like super frustrated when I worked at that firm for a while, because there was like lots of things and ideas and things I wanted to do. And I didn't have the ability to do it because it was not my firm. And my boss at the time, there's nothing wrong, but it's like she had her own ideas and they maybe weren't completely aligned as to things I wanted to do. So I felt like this is so exciting. Now I get to have my own law firm and my own point of view and my own way to handle the cases. Obviously some of that was very naive because I do think. A lot of employees working in a business think, oh, it's gonna be so wonderful and glamorous when I own my own firm. And there are harsh realities that you just don't realize until you own your own firm,
Sonya Palmer
Yes. Very true. When you're the one that's responsible for everything you had. You had mentioned that you asked for referrals early on what were some other measures you took secure cases the first few years?
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
I started just going to tons of events and thinking about who would be someone who would be in a network of people that would be people I need to represent. I started getting involved with the medical community because I'm thinking these people are interacting with injured people. And I started just, going and hitting the pavement and talking to doctors and chiropractors and people that I knew already had connection to the people I wanted to serve.
Sonya Palmer
What strategic hires early on, who were some of your first hires?
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
So when I first started the law firm, I I had this like thing where I was like, I always thought it was better to appear larger than you were. I immediately hired a virtual receptionist because I was like, I cannot be answering the phone. Hello. I'm just here. I'm also
Sonya Palmer
Like, let me connect you to her!
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
Like different voices. Yeah, and then I had immediately hired an intern from my law school who was a law student. So after like experiencing having an employee, I was like, oh my gosh, I need more people. But I think it's that first getting over the commitment of hiring someone that holds a lot of people back. And the reality is you, when you're first hiring, you're thinking, oh my God, I'm gonna have to have their entire salary and my bank account to hire them. And that's just not true. Realistically, you need about 12, like 12 weeks of their salary until they start helping you make more money. And when thinking of it like that, it's a lot easier to make hires.
Sonya Palmer
Yes. Very true. And then did you have a tipping point where you're okay, we're doing really well and is there ever a point where you feel like a firm, has grown too much? Can you hit like a limit.
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
Always feel like there's room to improve our firm. I mean I can look back at moments when I'm like, I was really proud of the firm. In like when we moved into this building in the pandemic, I started to be like, this was more like what I was imagining when I was envisioning my law firm, and I really like our space is so in uplifting and inspiring to be in. And, I love coming here, but in my mind, when I walk in most days, I see the vision that lives in my mind of what, and I'm like, where are the 40 other people that are supposed to be here right now? And I think that's just a common thing for a lot of people that have really big visions as you live in your vision. And you're like always disappointed at where you are right now. I like the process and I like the journey of it. I love the person you get to become along the way. Like the leader, you have to become all the lessons and the personal development you have to go through to unlock the next level.sonya I completely agree, especially with leadership, because when, there are people who are brand new to leadership and then those that have been doing it for decades. And I don't think there's a lot of resources for those people that are learning that have started doing it. They're in those places. They're learning, but they still have a long way to go.
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
The process is painful. Sometimes you need to be real. There has been times that owning a law firm has. Been devastating. There's been times where people quit unexpectedly that I did not foresee coming. And I walk in and I get noticed that they quit and it's like earth-shattering there's times when you know we've been fired off a multimillion dollar case. And there's times when. You have to make really hard decisions cuz you see stuff that other people just can't see from their vantage point because there's not everyone in the whole law firm has access to the same information. There's a lot of gut wrenching decisions you have to make to continue growing a sustainable growing law firm. And I sometimes just wish that there was more conversations about that stuff.
Sonya Palmer
Even though your vision has not been fulfilled, You have definitely experienced significant growth from 2018 to 2020, you were listed as one of the fastest growing law firms in the country. during the pandemic. Was it your intention to be one of the fastest growing firms?
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
Absolutely. But we like caveat this with the average law firm in the United States is growing at like less than 10% annual. So I don't know whether I'm really like a star or we're just like measuring against a very slow moving industry because A lot of what we've done to grow has been out of absolute necessity. For example, this gives give you an example. We have an intake team. We have wonderful, lovely people that work on our intake team. And when we were smaller, we only had one intake person. Can you imagine how many hours they had to work to cover all the shifts of a 24 hour, seven day a week business where you get calls all throughout the day. So I kept telling everyone, we are not gonna be able to keep intake people. If we only have one intake person and we were seeing that, people would get burned out. So I was like, what would it take for us to support three or four intake people, and a lot of why we've wanted to grow is just because we can create better jobs for people. And we can create more sustainability in the law firm when the number of the person in that department is not one, you see so many law firms where they have one person doing one thing and one person doing another thing, and then they lose that person. And the law firm implodes.
Sonya Palmer
What other sort of like systems and processes did you put in place to help scale and keep up with the growth?
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
At one point we only had one pod and then you would get a client and were unhappy. Maybe, not everyone's a fit for everyone. So I'm like, I can't own a law firm that has one. Option, multiple different options for our clients, and we have intake software. We have case management software. We have ways to text our clients. We have ways to have them sign digital documents. We use a lot of technology cuz that's the way the world is going.
Sonya Palmer
I think that probably does play a role in being able to grow so rapidly is the adoption of technology where I do think that sort of traditional law firms might be hesitant to do that and kind of change things.
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
Our clients are not just comparing us to other law firms. They are comparing us to their consumer experiences across a broad range of services. And if they can get a pizza by pressing a button in five minutes, and then you want them to come in and sign a document with their blood and sweat and tears, 25 miles away. You're losing people.
Sonya Palmer
That is an excellent point that I hadn't really connected, but yes, they have so many other industries have made things so simple that can be done on a phone or a computer. That. Yeah. If you're asking someone to physically come into to find a place and drive to it, and physically sign a paper, that's asking a lot of someone. So I think you're, I think that's a good connection. Yeah. If I can't do it from my phone.
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
Expectations are radically shifting. And if you don't stay aware of that, you will become obsolete.
Sonya Palmer
Yes. If you had to do it all over again, where would you have invested more time and energy to get to your goals sooner?
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
I would've hired different metnors at earlier stages. I don't know if that's possible, because I think sometimes what's in your awareness is what's in your awareness. But I do think sometimes you outgrow mentors and you stay too long and you don't realize that there is something else waiting for you that to go to the next level, if you will just leave I wish that I had hired faster. Even there was times I feel like I hesitated hiring and I should have just hired. I feel like in our current environment, we're taking the position to almost overstaff because how challenging the hiring environment is. And. People have a lot of stuff going on in their personal lives. So even if they love working for you, this just happened to us maybe two weeks ago. They're like, I love working here, but my personal life is having so many issues that I have to move, we have to almost take offensive position in hiring at this point. I wish that I had fired other people faster that should have been fired, that I was too hopeful about and we all know when we have people that they need to go, but we're like holding onto their potential in our mind.
Sonya Palmer
Yes, it's really hard.
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
I wish I had done all of those things more efficiently, faster, and I wish I had understood how to finance a personal injury law firm in a more advanced level. I think financing is another topic. You see a lot of people struggling. How do you finance cases for 12 to 18 months? And I'm not just saying, taking loans, I'm saying strategically build your budget around the idea that you are financing cases.
Sonya Palmer
Yeah. And just knowing like where the money is coming from, where the money is going. Good bookkeeping.
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
I wish that I had the fine of financial controls that I have now. And the financial for forecasting I have now four or five years ago. Because that gives me a lot of clarity.
Sonya Palmer
You said about mentors. I think that it's natural. It makes sense to move on from a mentor because your job as a leader or as a mentor is that eventually that person will not need you as much.
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
The student becomes the teacher. At some point, if you have a mentor that never sees you becoming their equal, that can become a problem.
Sonya Palmer
Yes. Yeah. My job as a leader is to make my team as good as I am to grow them. So I think it makes perfect sense that naturally people would move on from mentors in a time.
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
Coincides with that too. I wish that I had hired smarter people than me sooner when I was even younger, because I do feel like there was a time where I was struggling with hiring someone much older than me when I was eight, and I see that with a lot of young women, it's like, they're comfortable managing somebody younger than them, but they're they like struggle almost like an imposter syndrome or something with managing someone much older than them.
Sonya Palmer
Yeah, I think you're onto something there. And it might even be as simple as like relatability finding common ground, but I think you're onto something there and pulling from a vast amount of experiences is definitely in your best interest.
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
That is something when you have a great employee, like I had an amazing employee and she's still with me and she. Saw me as the person. I was, she didn't see me as for my age and just write me off and say, oh, you're only 28. What do you know? And when she saw me that way and treated me that way, it changed my experience. And I realized yeah, like I, I am the boss, I'm taking all the risks. I deserve the respect,
Sonya Palmer
Jennifer has taken risks time and time again. Using all that sh has learned, she wants to help others do the same. She explains how she got started as a business coach for women.
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
What started happening was a lot of, people started asking me to help them here and there. And I'm so passionate about business and. Having more women owning companies and growing multimillion dollar companies. There was a statistic from the 2018 American express report, which basically said that the number of women owned businesses in the United States that had revenue of a hundred thousand or less guess the percentage.
Sonya Palmer
I'm afraid to
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
A hundred thousand or less is the category, what do you think? The percentage is 80%.
Sonya Palmer
80%?!
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
A hundred K or less. Okay.
Sonya Palmer
A hundred k or less.
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
And then there was a, there was another statistic that said the percent of businesses that are owned by women. This is in 2018 that do a million dollars or more.
Sonya Palmer
Yes. That's like 11%.
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
It's 1.7%
Sonya Palmer
so 1% of women own businesses that are doing more than a million?
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
Correct. And that includes lawyers. That includes all business. That's every type of business. But I really found that number. So like hard to wrap my mind around because I own a law firm. That's a multimillion dollar law firm. So then I'm like, okay, I'm in a 1%. Actually I'm probably in that half percent, because they're just saying minimum of a million, and then I'm thinking to myself, how many employees can you employ with a million dollars of revenue? It's not a lot. What can you do with a hundred K these are really just like side hustles. And they're not sustainable, meaning you can't go off grid and have a three month maternity leave like I did because there's no one there to run the law firm when you're gone. So I started thinking about what kind of experience are these women giving themselves in owning a business quote, unquote. If you don't own a business that has employees. And they said the average number of employees that these women's businesses had was like half of an employee. You know what that experience like experience of doing everything all on your own and having no support and no leadership. And that is a very like draining experience. As a business owner, as a lawyer, you do that for a period of time till you can get the leverage to start hiring people. But that level is like unsustainable to do for years and years.
Sonya Palmer
Yes. I come across a ton of statistics, but that one is jarring to me. And like you said, that's a side hustle. That's not necessarily a business and yes, these that it is not sustainable.
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
Yeah. So what would our country look like? What would a lot of things look like if there was more women that owned a multimillion dollar companies, let alone multimillion dollar law firms.
Sonya Palmer
Why do you think that is? What are some of the struggles that these women are facing?
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
I think that it comes a lot down to domestic support. I think that's where you see a lot of cuz if you look at the data, a lot of it says that women really disappear from the business ownership side during those childbearing years there was more women that owned companies in their forties. And so I do think that domestic support is a huge thing, but you can figure it out. I've figured it out. I have three kids it's not impossible. And you need to think of your business as your business works for you, and it's there to support the clients, but also you as an owner and give you the lifestyle that you are wanting. When you're having kids, you can take time to yourself. If you've built out the firm, that it can. Work without you. All of these things are possible.
Sonya Palmer
And that's a good take, cuz I, I do think that. of women in business. They do try to do it all themselves and keep the flexibility a lot of times. Cause it allows them to be a part of home, raising their kids when really what you just said would grant them that grow the business and then you can pull back.
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
When I was gone for three months off grid, I mean off grid, completely off grid. They sent me reports and I had key reports that we developed for months and months before I went off grid and we did a trial run before I went off grid. I went off grid for one week. And we saw everything that broke and then I had to fix all the things that I was too overly involved with, which to be honest, shouldn't have just been done by me anyway. A lot of 'em had to do with the banking and the financials, and we created all these checks and balances and ways that I could have oversight and feel comfortable. And when I was off, I would get reports and they would have like key things and I would know everything is fine. As long as these numbers are green, that's what an entrepreneur does versus I'm gonna have a really small business so that I don't ever have to like, have the stress of having to have payroll. I think that's how women stay small.
Sonya Palmer
You talk about delegation. I think the like trial off grid was super smart. Go, okay, stuff's gonna break you own a business. It broke. What are we gonna do about it? Okay. We're gonna plug these people in here to fix it versus a lot of smaller businesses where they're doing the work accounting marketing. They're trying to do all of it. So it all breaks when they step away.
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
Yeah. And I also don't like to go on vacation and be working. So I like to, when I'm on vacation, I can check my emails here and there, but I'm not gonna be like full blown working. And I see that pervasively in the legal field. That people are on vacation, but they're completely working. And so once you start setting those boundaries and saying, this is what my business has to provide for it to be successful, I have to be able to take a vacation and not be working. So what would that look like? Who needs to be in place there and. That's the maternity leave thing was because I hired a CFO and I had said to the CFO, this is my goal. I'm having a baby. I want this. And then we engineered it. So you need to have people in your life mentors as a CFO was like a coach at that time, people that will expand your mind and say, this is possible.
Sonya Palmer
It is, it's not a surprise listening to how you've set your business up, that you guys have been as successful as you are. So I'm a systems and processes person. So to hear this is very exciting to me.
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
Yeah. And I'm gonna tell you another crazy thing, like just going off that grid and leaving and seeing that they hit all the numbers that they were hitting. When I was there, I'm like saying to myself, what was I doing there? I was also realizing that they were getting stuff done that I thought I needed to step in on. And if I just let them handle it, they would get to it. Maybe they couldn't get stamp out that fire in 30 seconds, but they could do it by the end of the day. And I was overly involved in things and that's my constant area to work on is to let them do their jobs and not overstep and I see a lot of women struggling with that but also, I have a lot of help. I have a nanny actually. I have two nannies right now because you need backups.
Sonya Palmer
It's a good point.
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
Housekeeper, I have a personal assistant. . I have a personal trainer. There is a lot of people. When you see a woman owning a multimillion dollar company, let's just debunk the myth that they are doing it all. There's a cast of people that are amazing, that are helping that person do only the things they wanna do.
Sonya Palmer
Yes, I fully subscribe to that. Put in place. Whatever is going to make you a better business owner, a better parent whatever it is. I think that's the smartest thing to do.
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
And it's not overnight. It's not like you get all those people overnight. It's over years you're like, okay, I need this extra support. I need this. I started off with a part-time assistant. and then I was like, oh my God, there's 40 hours of work for this person. just managing a household. I think women get stuck doing a ton of that stuff like processing all your personal home mail. There's a book by Eve Rodsky don't know if you've heard of it, but it's called Fair Play. It's a life changing book.
Sonya Palmer
I believe it.
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
It's basically about all the work that goes into the domestic home, whether you're married, have children or whatever. And if you're sharing a household with a partner, how many cards, if you were to lay out all the cards on the table of what it takes to run a household, how many cards are women carrying versus men? And it's usually like 80 to 20.
Sonya Palmer
I'm gonna get that.
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
You basically need to reevaluate and see. Either we gotta rebalance these cards and my partner needs to step up, which I have a very supportive partner, or we need to hire someone to offload. Who's gonna do all the target returns, cuz I don't feel like doing it after I've been in work all day and I'm very busy and I'm wanting to relax.
Sonya Palmer
And when you are a CEO, is target returns a good use of your time.
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
Horrible, horrible use of your time.
Sonya Palmer
Terrible.
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
But we all know there are people that are, have so much potential and are brilliant that are stuck doing these things.
Sonya Palmer
Yeah. Now if you enjoy target returns, by all means, but I think yes, when you're yeah.
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
Like going to target here and there, but who likes target returns?
Sonya Palmer
Maybe someone , but yeah, I think, yes, when you own a business, like your time is money. If you're not spending your time on the business, and then, or on yourself, spending time with your family, taking care of yourself, it's costing you in the long run where you think you might be saving. You're not.
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
It's just being intentional with you only have 24 hours. And if you can make a lot more money than it costs to hire someone to do your personal errand. And you hate doing your personal errands. What are you doing? When you have kids, there's so much that's involved with all of their school stuff. She has an entire, almost like job, just keeping up with all the school documents and things and registrations and I feel like if I didn't have her, my anxiety would be, and I'm not an anxious person. I would have so much anxiety about the mountain of work mounting up at home. Versus when I come home from work, I get an end of the day report from her on everything she's done. She's handled my dry cleaning. She's picked up things from the grocery store I needed. She's managed all the mail and I feel like I can breathe a sigh of relief when I come home that everything is done.
Sonya Palmer
Yeah. And that piece of mind is priceless.
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
Priceless.,
Sonya Palmer
So I got one more for you. If you were not a CEO, what would you be?
Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert
It's just who I am. I, I. I'm so happy and grateful that I get to live a job that I feel like, not only as a lawyer advocating for people, but as a business owner and that's who I truly am in my core and what lights me up and I could talk about for hours, obviously. But yeah, I think whatever you are be that in the world.
Sonya Palmer
What could our country look like if more women-owned multimillion-dollar companies and law firms? You, dear listener, have come so far already. And that is cause for celebration. Lets keep going - together. Let the women like Jennifer serve as examples in your life of what is possible and the growth that you can obtain - with the right support. A huge thank you to Jennifer Gore for sharing her story and unbelievable insights with us today. You’ve been listening to LawHER with, me, Sonya Palmer. If you found this content insightful, inspiring, or just made you smile, please share this episode with the trailblazer in your life. For more about Jennifer check out our show notes. While you're there, please leave us a review or a five-star rating. It really goes a long way for others to discover the show. I'll see you next week on LawHER where we'll shed light on how another of the brightest and boldest women in the legal industry climbed to the top of her field.
