Leah Molatseli:
... and I say this with my full chest...
Sonya Palmer:
Those in the legal field, the legal industry don'tunderstand the dangers of the technology and can't then protect their clientsor their staff because they don't understand it.
Leah Molatseli:
We have an ethical obligation as lawyers in South Africato keep abreast of legal developments. It doesn't matter. If you're practicing,you have to know what's going on.
Sonya Palmer:
For the eighth consecutive year, women outnumbered men inlaw schools across the nation, yet this wave of change has not reached theshore's power. Women hold just 25% of seats at the table as board members andmanaging partners, but the tides are turning. Women in law are no longer meeklywaiting for an invitation, they are boldly striking out, creating a futurewhere success is defined on their own terms, and law firms fit into theirlives, not the other way around. As this new generation of trailblazers rises,we stand with them, ready to amplify their voices and fuel the transformation.This is LawHer.
I am Sonya Palmer, your host and VP of operations atRankings, the SEO agency supporting you in claiming your rightful place at thetop. We're thrilled to present the second miniseries of season two, Titans ofTech. From solo practitioners to managing partners, from courtroom warriors totech innovators, we're sharing the stories of women who are redefining what itmeans to succeed in law. Let's uncover their strategies, celebrate theirtriumphs, and learn from their journeys, together.
Meet Leah Molatseli, a legal tech innovator, admittedattorney of the High Court of South Africa, and a woman who's been shatteringglass ceilings since she was 24. Leah isn't just talking about the future oflaw, she's actively creating it. Named one of the ABA's Women of Legal Tech in2022 and an International Strategy Forum Africa fellow in 2023, Leah brings aunique perspective on the intersection of law, technology, and innovation.
She's launched South Africa's first legal e-commerceplatform, been recognized as one of the 50 most inspiring women in STEM, and isthe youngest black female council member at her alma mater, the University ofthe Free State. Here's why you really need to lean in. Leah's journey marriesmany of our own. She became a mother at 19 while in law school, navigated thechallenges of traditional law firm culture, and then pivoted to create her ownpath in legal tech. Her experiences offer invaluable insights for women atevery stage of their legal careers.
In this episode, we are diving deep into the world oflegal tech. We'll explore how AI is reshaping our industry, discuss the skillsgap in legal education and uncover strategies for women to lead in thistech-driven legal landscape. Let's dive in.
Leah Molatseli:
I think Americans don't realize the type of impact thatthey have across the world. I think they probably have the biggest marketingmachine ever. No one ever wants to talk about it, but if we were talking aboutbusinesses and we could align it to countries that are able to have incrediblemarketing machines, America was that for me growing up. I grew up with yourAlly McBeal, The Practice, and I was like, "Sheesh, I want to be alawyer," so that's how it started. I just instantly fell in love with theconcept of the law, and fighting, and just doing your own thing, but in a waythat actually impacts other people's lives positively. So from a very young ageI recognized that I needed to study really hard. I needed to be able toarticulate myself well. I needed to be a leader.
So I was very strategic. I started taking up leadershiproles even in, I think you guys call it elementary school. We call it primaryschool. Even in secondary school, I think you guys call it high school, where Iwas a prefect, then I was the head girl. I took up debating, I took up publicspeaking, and I started really hard. All of those things actually built up tome literally wanting to be a lawyer. Then I studied at the University of theFree State from my hometown in the Free State where I currently sit also as acouncil member, which is a governing body of the university. You know when youhave those journeys where you have a 360 degree, where you come back? So yeah,that's where the journey started.
And then from then I went from a small firm, then I wentto the biggest firm in the Free State, and then from then I thought,"Geez, maybe traditional law is not for me.? Because I mean, it takes timefor you to discover yourself. You think you want something and then it's notfor you. And this beautiful movie, I think it's August Rush, and there's a songwhere August walks into a church and he hears them singing. One of the lyricssays, "Sometimes you have to dream another dream," and I've had todream many a dreams after that.
But yeah, I just realized, you know what? Practicing thetraditional side of the law is not for me, and that's okay. It's okay, I justneed to do something different. Then I quit my job, only because theenvironment for me at that stage wasn't conducive. This is before Covid, thisis before all of the flexibility currently that is allowed for women, and Ibecame a mom very young. I became a mom when I was 19, in my second year of lawschool. It was really hard, so by the time I was an associate, my purview and perspectivearound what I needed in order to practice the law was very different from mypeers, and my requirements and the allowances and inclusions that are requiredwere not accommodated.
So I thought to myself, "You know what? Go do yourown thing." So that's actually how I fell into consulting, whichultimately led to legal technology, which is where I've been for the pastcouple of years. Couple meaning seven, but yeah, we call it couple.
Sonya Palmer:
You are a tech expert within the legal field, but I likethat you also mentioned you started out looking for leadership roles, publicspeaking, debate, these other soft skills people would probably refer to, thatyou refined first before turning your attention towards tech. The otherinteresting thing that I heard... Sorry, I took a lot of notes. A lot of thelawyers that we talk to, they start families and then realize this path thatI'm on is not working. So you having been young, when you started your careerand being a mom, you noticed that right away and that allowed you to pivot.Thank you for all that. That was excellent.
Your work sits at the intersection of many importantissues, law, technology, entrepreneurship, social impact. What drives you tokeep pushing boundaries and tackling tough challenges in these areas?
Leah Molatseli:
Two things. At the foremost, it's always my children. Onlybecause, unfortunately we want our children to listen to us. What we say shouldbe the law. It's not, it's what we do. They are silently looking at us. Theyare watching the type of decisions that we make. So from a very young age,being a mom, I recognize that, you know what? They need to see me live out mydreams so they too can have the permission to do the same. And so I have beengoing at 100 for a very long time, for that particular purpose.
The second reason is really just, look, the listenersmight not have context of Bloemfontein. Think about Bloemfontein, for example,as... Because I mean, I've been there, as Notre Dame, literally the tiny town,versus Chicago. They're not far from each other. So you think as Notre Dame asBloem, and Chicago as Johannesburg. So Notre Dame still not necessarily rural,but it's what they call peri-urban. So the opportunities are limited. They'rethere, but they're limited and they give you a small hint of what a big citylife would look like. So you grow up, and with the internet and everything, atsome point I just realized this is not big enough for me.
So from an impact perspective, I recognize that if I'mbuilding this particular startup and I can reach eight provinces... Forcontext, when we say provinces in my country, that's your guys's version ofstates. So at the height of my legal tech startup back in the day, we had usersfrom eight of the nine provinces. I then realize this is not the space for me,because sometimes you get to a point where you think, "I'm amazing, I'mgreat." No, you're just in a small pond. You need to go to Chicago, youneed to go to Joburg, you need to go fight with your peers and figure out am Ithe best in my space? What's everyone else doing, and all of that?
So for me, was recognizing the ability of technology tochange the type of impact in terms of service delivery to normal citizensthrough what I was doing back then, to almost the entire country. I was like,"Oh, this is possible. If it can change my life as a lawyer, it can alsochange other lawyers' lives." That's how I fell into legal technology. Butyeah, those are the two core reasons, my children and the type of impact that Igenerally believe legal technology can have in lawyers' lives.
Sonya Palmer:
I love that. We often say, "If you're the best in theroom, you're in the wrong room," so just going and expanding that. Let'stalk more about legal tech and your work with startups. What lessons can lawfirms learn from startups as they look to innovate?
Leah Molatseli:
I've been legal tech startup, traditional law firm, and alegal tech company. What I've noticed in terms of being able to iterate andpivot is the amount of red tape involved in the entire process. When you lookat the number of steps that it takes from an idea to actually implementing in astartup versus a corporation, startup's very quick, and I think that's actuallywhere the advantage lies for most startups. Because they can think up of anidea, implement it immediately, and the sooner they implement, the sooner theyrecognize, "Oh, I need to pivot, the market isn't responding," or,"I need to change or tweak here."
Versus in corporate there's a lot of red tape. It needs tobe approved by who and who, and everyone wants to be heard. Look, I'm notdiscounting those opinions, but some people just want to talk because they wantto talk, so a long line. So by the time you actually get a product ready, or asolution ready for your market, the opportunity is gone. So you haven't evenseized that particular chance for you to actually get your target market.
So for me, I think one of the biggest things is aboutlistening and giving the... Because I know what traditional law firms right noware doing, are building tiny little... I think I'd be minimizing my colleaguesif I would call it side hustles, with the firm. But they're building ancillarycompanies to support them in their innovation initiatives. That's fine, butthey need to give those guys more freedom, especially if it's adjacent to thetraditional legal service side.
Because I can understand the innovator's dilemma. Theydon't want to change yet and so forth, great. But if you have dipped your toesa bit and you've given some form of head of innovation or head of alternativelegal services, give them less red tape so they can run. It's going to beamazing. But I get it. Lawyers, traditionally we're scared of failure, so it'shard to allow people just to go and try things.
Sonya Palmer:
How can they do that? So you're talking about spitting outa sister company, a totally something separate, or just a division within thelaw firm that's going to operate a little bit differently?
Leah Molatseli:
Well, in my environment I've seen them do it where, let'ssay it's me. Let's say Contract Alchemists is a traditional law firm, right?And then we decide to build Contract Legals as an ancillary of the company. SoContract Alchemists as a law firm would function normally, traditional lawfirm, partner shares and all of those things. Whereas, because obviously mostof the functions around innovation is not fee earning, one, oftentimes theymake it very, very difficult for Contract Legal to find the right talent,because the matrix that they're trying to use is the same that they're using inthe traditional side. And that's not the case.
Sometimes talent, especially when it comes to innovation,you actually have to be creative around who you bring on board and recruit. AndI think they miss a lot of very talented people only because they're stillfollowing the traditional rubric of you need to have this, you need to do this,you need to... So you have to be creative, you have to see your potentialrecruiters, potential experiences, what they've done, whatever that looks like.It might make it harder for them, but it's well worth it because then you knowyou bring someone who is not only qualified, but is different and energizedenough to bring the type of change that you require in the firm. That's onething.
Then the second thing is really, I think money will alwayscontrol a lot of things. It is the same across the board. There's also a burdenon Contract Legal, this is now the subsidiary, to actually advocate forthemselves. And I'm not sure what happens in other countries, but for example,we don't get taught how to run a business or how to run a law firm. We maylearn traditional principles of legal practice, this is what it looks like, butno one tells us how to run a business, so it becomes incumbent on the team toactually be able to advocate for themselves and to showcase that this is how wedo what we do. This is what is required. And sometimes that is missing.
I also find that a lot in a lot of legal tech startupshere locally, where they're great in terms of their mission and their impact,this is what we can do, we can change the legal industry. But they're notpaying enough attention on the business model. And whether we like it or not,it's about the coins, it's about the money, and you need to showcase that.Whether it's in the short term, in the long term, even if it takes three years,five years, but you need to be able to demonstrate that to say, "Look, ifyou do this, blah, blah, this is..." All of it.
Sonya Palmer:
Are there challenges unique to traditional law firmstrying to adopt this process versus a new firm or a newly established firm juststarting out this way?
Leah Molatseli:
I think for the traditional firms it's a bit harderbecause of institutional knowledge, if I can put it, where you still havepeople thinking a particular way, they're set in their own ways. Whereas ifyou're starting from scratch, you don't have any of those hindrances,especially if you're starting your own thing. Obviously if it's your own company,you are able to set the mission and you're going to recruit people who believewhat you believe. That can only drive the business, and that's where you findthat execution will become a bit faster. Versus in the traditional space whereyou will get those challenges and blockers.
Sonya Palmer:
They have to unlearn the things that they think that theyknow, so starting fresh with someone with less experience, but more of awillingness to learn can work better. Why is it so important for women in particularto get ahead of this tech curve?
Leah Molatseli:
It's the fact that the majority of them are women. It'samazing. I promise you, do you know how I feel seen whenever I'm in my space?Because maybe it's like a silent code of honor and that, "Hey, I see you.I may not know your journey, but by virtue of us being us, I know what you'vebeen going through." And there is, there's that silent camaraderieship,that we get it. Which unfortunately, look, things might have changed back thento now, but when I was in practice, it wasn't so open, it wasn't sotransformative, it wasn't so inclusive. Whereas for me, in terms of my ownexperience, I'm not speaking for anyone else, what I've experienced is, I mean,even the people that I'm working with are women.
For example, one of my friends, she runs her own legalinnovation and technology institutes here in South Africa. My other friend runsher own legal ops consulting company. So geez, it makes me happy because Ialways know I'm not alone. I can pick up a phone, I can send a WhatsApp messageand say, "Hey, life is hard," and I won't be judged. I won't be seenas less than. I know that my feelings will be validated. I know that I will beseen, and that is so important. Sometimes it just takes one person to just say,"You know what? You can do this," and you can believe them becausethey look like you and you will get it done. I'm not minimizing the people whoadvocate for us, our male allies and all of that.
Sonya Palmer:
Artificial intelligence or AI is revolutionizing the legalindustry. From automating routine tasks to enhancing legal research andpredictive analytics, AI is changing how lawyers work and redefining what'spossible in legal services. Leah explains where she is seeing AI have thebiggest impact on the legal world.
Leah Molatseli:
AI, jeez man, where do I start?
Sonya Palmer:
Smart contracting, data analytics, document automation, toname a few.
Leah Molatseli:
They're doing too much. I think much like the US where, Imean if we're being real, the biggest two categories in legal technology arecontracts, whether we're talking about from the drafting side, negotiation,execution, all of it, that entire chain, or we're talking discovery, so thosetwo categories, even with us, it's the same. And I think that it follows, itmakes sense.
For us it's also the same, so from a contractingperspective, but what I have seen though... The founders are the South AfricanLegal Tech Network, but they use a billing system. Typically for us when we taxbills, we have tax consultants. So instead of having tax consultants actuallydo that, they actually have a system that does that for lawyers when, when theygo before the court and they actually do the whole taxation of the bills. Thathas been cool to see, and they integrate AI into their process. That has beenamazing just from a efficiency perspective, that's been great.
And I mean there have been a bunch of others around thedrafting process, negotiating, especially the post-contract stuff. But what'sbeen cool, and this is very exciting for me because in as much as I'm heavilyinvested in technology, and I say this with my full chest because I feel likenon-technical founders get so insecure about saying it, I can't code, I don'tintend to code, and I don't want to code. I know and understand my strengths.I'm great on the business side and operational side, and I'm comfortable withthat. But for me as a non-technical founder, seeing the transition oftechnology around actually when you can upload a document and it's OCR and canpick up certain data points, it's crazy for me.
It's amazing being able to actually talk to your document.Being able to upload it, and then it summarizes it, and then you just,literally the same way we do with ChatGPT, but it's safe as it's within thesystem, but you can actually ask it and say, "Hey, there's someone here,they need X, Y, Z," and then you just input the information and can have aconversation with your specific document. That's good. I think it's great froman efficiency perspective. It's great especially for the legal department guyswho don't have the time, and then if someone asks you a question, you don'thave to sift through the entire legal document to read it, versus justliterally asking it a question and then it answers you. So for me, that's beengreat to see and experience.
Sonya Palmer:
Yes, I sometimes think with AI, again we have to unlearnthe way we think that it's supposed to operate for us, and invent new wayswhere we're trying to get it to substitute these human tasks and get them to dothem better or more accurate. I do think there are completely alternative waysto doing things that we've not really thought about, particularly withinoperations. Instead of just slotting AI in, I think we need it to rethink theentire thing. That applies to many industries, automations, options areendless.
Leah Molatseli:
The problem with that is it's going to require people tothink differently of their own roles in terms of, so if AI is doing this, whatdo I have to do as a lawyer? What does that mean for me? I think that's wherethe challenge comes in when it comes to adoption and acceptance and all ofthose jazzy things, is that fear, that if I allow this and I'm pushing for thiswithin my firm, within my legal department, what does that mean for me as alegal professional?
Sonya Palmer:
I agree. Where I work, I run operations marketing, and Ithink AI is eating up a lot of those tasks. I don't know that you can stopthis, you almost are forced to adapt, forced to evolve. I don't know that wecan stop this, it's coming with or without people's-
Leah Molatseli:
And it's getting better.
Sonya Palmer:
... adopting it. Yes. I think that the people that aregoing to succeed are going to be the ones that choose to adopt it, harness itfor good, leverage it, make sure that it's safe, make sure that it's notharming anyone, that it's a net good for humanity. But I don't know thatthere's a way to stop it at this point. It's going to replace, so what are yougoing to do next, kind of a thing? That's across so many industries. But yeah,marketing is... Within a year it can just create an image. There's so much thatit can do.
Leah Molatseli:
I just read an article from, I think it's the BBC, wherethe entire marketing team went from, I think 60 people in a particular firm, to10 or something. And their job now is just to ensure that the outputs are morehuman. For me, that's why I'm a huge advocate of prompt engineering. So lastyear when ChatGPT came out, I'm like, "Let me take a course on promptengineering so that I can understand what I'm doing." Only because I thinkit's literally going to be right up there with your Microsoft Word, your Excel,your core skills that you need to have in any role so that you can actually beable to navigate it. From a legal perspective, obviously that means legalprompt engineering will be a thing.
Sonya Palmer:
It's a great example, because you wouldn't think that youcan use a spreadsheet wrong, but boy, can you, right? You absolutely can do itwrong.
Leah Molatseli:
Oh, yes.
Sonya Palmer:
You can create a really poor spreadsheet. And you're rightwith the prompts, there is a skill just to being able to harness this new tool.You're not going to sit down with ChatGPT and just give it a one sentenceprompt and find anything that's usable. What I have done is, I guess trying tochain the AIs in a minimal way, but to write our SOPs, our standard operatingprocedures, by having it read our company manual. Like, "Read this, andthen write this," and then I sometimes have it check itself, and there'smore autonomy to it.
Leah Molatseli:
True.
Sonya Palmer:
Many of our listeners are at different stages in theircareers, some just starting out, others mentoring the next generation.Regardless of where we are, understanding how legal education is evolving orneeds to evolve to keep pace with technology, is critical. It affects howprepared new lawyers are entering the field, how we can better mentor and trainour teams, and even how we might need to upscale ourselves. Let's talk aboutthe impact of tech on legal education. Leah is at the forefront of legalinnovation. She explains the biggest gaps between skills law students arelearning and the tech-driven realities of modern practice.
Leah Molatseli:
Look, it was already a problem when I graduated, so I canonly imagine what's happening right now. But it's just a point of understandingnot only from a technical perspective, institutions actually allowing studentsto experience the technology itself. I mean, it goes without saying whether youend up practicing or not, I feel like it's a baseline. And I've always said Ihold a strong belief that, for example, for us, we have an ethical obligationas lawyers in South Africa to keep abreast of legal development. It doesn'tmatter, if you're practicing, you have to know what's going on. There's anobligation on you.
Now my question has always been, and I will alwayschallenge anyone who asks me on this, why is the same standard not applied totechnological competence? Because there's no way that in 2024 you are stillfaxing things, because at some point you need to then decide at what point doesmy being able to give advice and provide a certain legal service stand in theway of my clients getting adequate and accurate legal services? For me, I thinkit's important that there's a layer, even if it's just theoretical.
Look, ultimately they can't do everything, because for us,the law degree is an undergraduate degree. They can't do everything, fine. Buteven at that stage, incorporate, let's say an elective in your final year, thatfocuses solely on understanding the importance of legal technology,understanding of technology in the context of the law, and the educations, andwhat you need to look out for, that's important. And then obviously, becausefor us, for example, you study and then after that you go to law school, andthen from law school, then you rewrite our equivalent of the bar. We call itattorney's admission exams, comprises of four exams. So you write those, butnone of those exams include any type of tech in them. The question is, shouldthey?
But I think for us, maybe other countries are a bit moreahead. For us, we're still not there yet, and that's why I'm a huge fan of...That's why I wrote my first book. The first one was very foundational, verysimple in terms of text, in terms of making people understand what legaltechnology is, how you can get into it, what would that look like in practice?Very, very foundational, that's why I worked with the University of Cape Townin terms of just supplementing the learning. Because there's always some formof continuous learning for us as lawyers, so that's important. I don't thinkit's going to end anytime soon, but we have to try.
At some point I had this weird dream. I dream too much.Geez, I'm oversharing now, but I dream too much. At some point I was talking tosome university, trying to make them start a master's in legal tech. Geez,that's a big dream for me, like why Leah? Why? There's no reason, Leah.
Sonya Palmer:
Yeah. Haha.
Leah Molatseli:
No reason, but I did it. And I'm like, "It's fine. Ashort course will do." There really is a need. It's a must.
Sonya Palmer:
Absolutely. You mentioned earlier about how law schoolsdon't prepare attorneys to run a business. I think this is the same risk,they're not preparing attorneys to understand technology. I do like the aspectof theory of innovation, so that no matter what new tool or what new tech is onthe horizon, an attorney who's potentially running a business in theircommunity, can harness it. But I think beyond that is that those in the legalfield, the legal industry, don't understand the dangers of the technology andcan't then protect their clients or their staff because they don't understandit.
So when you are at the forefront of justice, a pivotalthing within community is to understand the dangers and to be able to fight oradvocate against them. I don't understand how that's not happening already inlaw schools and in preparation, but they're not teaching that.
Leah Molatseli:
I have faith. Unfortunately I'm an eternal optimist, Ihave faith things will change. As long as we keep advocating and talking aboutit, someone will hear us at some point.
Sonya Palmer:
You're absolutely right. Bias in technology, humans areinherently biased and has passed that bias onto the technology that we create.How can we ensure that these algorithms aren't perpetuating societal biasesaround race, gender, and class?
Leah Molatseli:
I think that will definitely, from a tech provider, itfalls on them to really ensure that when they're building, while they'rebuilding, the type of data that they input actually makes sense, and it's alsoinclusive. It's such a broad conversation. It's like me saying, "Oh, Iwant to change legal technology and embed it in everyone's mind." No,Leah, it's not a solo thing, everyone needs to be involved, and it's the samewith this too. It's around from a technology side, the tech provider side, it'saround them also ensuring that the type of data that they input and whatthey're training their models on, actually makes sense.
But oftentimes that unconscious bias will find that theroom might not look like me, and that's why it's important for them too to havepeople who look like me. It's important just to balance it out. And then whenit comes from the actual users, I can't stress this enough, at least for themat some point, just be cognizant. And that's why the prompt engineering courseswere important, especially with these type of technologies where you actuallyhave to think what you're doing.
And I know there've been some cases in the US where peoplehave been held accountable, where lawyers have been sanctioned for citinghallucinations in the arguments, the same has happened here. But okay,sometimes for me, and as much as you can say you blame them, but sometimes AIreceive this level of trust that just people think, "Hey, this will workin general." Unless you are in the industry where you understand that,hey, they can hallucinate, it's not hundred percent correct. So that's why it'sincumbent on the user to actually also educate themselves, how do I use thisethically to protect myself and my client? So there's that tiny little versionon top of really, if you're going to embrace it, just also make sure that youare also responsible in your use of the technology.
Sonya Palmer:
I don't know that it benefits cutting corners if that'sthe end goal. If that's the motivation, to cut a corner, I don't know thatyou're going to get a good product out of it. But if the motivation is toautomate, innovate, I think those checks are going to be built in, like yousaid.
Leah Molatseli:
True.
Sonya Palmer:
The statistics around unmet legal needs are staggering.92% of low-income Americans' civil legal problems go unaddressed. 5.1 billionpeople worldwide are excluded from legal protections. For listeners who may beless familiar, can you explain what we mean by the justice gap and how itmanifests in both the US and global contexts?
Leah Molatseli:
Geez, you're going to make me emotional. Only because,like I said, in my previous lifetime, for example, what I used to do was billspecifically around that, around meeting those unmet needs, the people that arenot seen. But obviously just from a commercialization perspective, it's hardbecause the NPO-type of, looking work is not that sexy. You don't get a lot ofVCs wanting to run into it, just from that perspective, but it is needed. It'sa much needed type of work.
I mean, I'm looking back at myself. Growing up, forexample, I'm the first graduate in my family. I'm the first lawyer in myfamily, so it means in my entire family, if someone needs legal advice, they'regoing to come to me first before they go to someone else. I know sometimes weget, "Oh, why are they doing this?" But it's because the system doesnot match them where they are in terms of their specific needs, but also from acosting perspective. It can't be that if I need a lawyer for a specific thing,I need to pay you three months of my salary in order for me to actually receivethe quality legal services that I need.
And why I really genuinely fell in love with legaltechnology was around that. The fact that the person can use WhatsApp, whichfor example, last year South Africa, they launched their first AI robot lawyerthrough WhatsApp. It's cost as little as five US dollars, equivalent of USdollars, per month. Where you can literally ask it questions and say,"Hey, I need help with this. Can you help me with X, Y, Z?" And thatis important because for us... And I know the US is not so hoo-ha aboutWhatsApp. In South Africa WhatsApp and Facebook is one of the biggestplatforms, so those are great ways in order to actually get your targetaudience. People who actually can't afford traditional legal services, youruncle or your grandmother in the rural area that has WhatsApp, that canactually ask the conversation and say, "Hey, I need assistance with this. Thatis life-changing.
But I think for us, we've also created a great market interms of legal insurance, because I know in African countries they actuallydon't. So for us, you'll have traditional lawyers, then you have alternativelegal service providers, legal tech startups. We have legal aid also. And thenour universities, for example where I did my articles, what you guys would callinternship, I did at my university's Law Clinic, so we have that too. But thenwe also have legal insurance companies. This is literally to try and give affordablelegal services at a particular price, and it's maxed, you can cap it out at aparticular point.
That's also good. Someone knows that, "Hey, I can payR500 a month," that's like $50 for you guys, "... a month, and I canget legal advice. I don't need to spend a thousand or whatever for aconsultation." And that's important too, so there's a bit broader scope interms of the options. But I think the missing piece for us also is thetechnological side around reaching those people who can't pick up a phone orwho can't actually take a taxi to go to the actual legal insurance firm, or togo to legal aid and speak to someone. So that's important.
Sonya Palmer:
There are a lot of attorneys that are eager to serve thosein need, but worry about financial sustainability, stability of working withlow-income clients. Is there a way to do well by doing good?
Leah Molatseli:
Did I not just complain just a couple of minutes agoabout... I think it's a blend. You know who I think has done it well? I think,is it Paladin? Paladin, yes, Paladin. I think Paladin has done it well becausethey haven't managed to incorporate... It's like a hybrid model, so you haveone part that is pro bono and then one part that is commercial. So you combinethe two and that'll actually drive your business model. So just because youdecide to drive impact or do good does not mean you cannot make money.Sometimes it's literally just around how you position it, who you're talkingto, but also from a business structure perspective, like when you're talking topeople and all those nice things. Sometimes it's really more of a technicalissue in terms of our creativity versus whether you can actually end up makingmoney or not. But yeah, I think Paladin, they've really, really done a goodjob.
Sonya Palmer:
And then for women who are energized by this conversationand are thinking they would like to try and solve a problem with starting theirown legal tech company or their own law firm, what would you say are the firststeps?
Leah Molatseli:
Save. Save as much as you can.
Sonya Palmer:
You've mentioned the money's important.
Leah Molatseli:
Yeah, no, it's important. Let's talk divorce. The factthat we have children, they need to eat, so that's important, so save as muchas you can. Network. Whoever came up with that term, your network is your networth, they were right. Sometimes there's certain opportunities that will comeeven before the whole world knows, that are directed to you, so network as muchas possible. And as much as I've been energetic during our conversation, I'mactually very introverted. I'm a better writer than I am always speaking. Sofor example, after this conversation I'm going to go to sleep.
Sonya Palmer:
Same. I'm also an introvert. Love this, but I'm tired now.
Leah Molatseli:
Exactly.
Sonya Palmer:
So much fun, but I'm sleepy.
Leah Molatseli:
There really should be networking. It might be hardbecause I'm not sure about other cultures, but sometimes women, they're told,"You need to be humble. You need to stay, be the tiny, littlewallflower." No. Nothing gets done. You won't eat if you don't talk. Andjust start. You're going to mess up probably, I mean, I've messed up a thousandtimes. I'm probably messing up this interview, who knows? But you try it. Youdo it anyway.
The point is really just showing up for yourself and thetype of impact that you want to drive, and I promise you, something will showup. I mean, I'm still getting opportunities for stuff that I did years ago. Imay not be doing it anymore, but because maybe I made an impression on oneperson and I tried something, and they're like, "Oh, I know this one cando it," and then now they're reaching out. It'll always pay off. Sometimesnot at the same speed that you would require it to, but you have to try. Youhave to put it out there. You have to try your marketing. You have to tellpeople what you're doing. You have to get into those rooms.
I've seen the best way in order to do that is literally,"Hey, my name is Leah. Great to meet you. I've loved seeing you from before,let's have coffee. Let's have some virtual coffee," and then you juststart talking. And I mean, we can talk forever, so it becomes easier. Itbecomes easier, and then when you don't know what you're doing, just researchand follow people.
The one thing I genuinely love about legal technology onthe traditional side, is that we're always sharing. I follow a lot of peopleand they're sharing they're journey, "Building this, I had this challengetoday," and that's encouraging, especially if you're doing it alone at thebeginning. It's so important to understand that the world is bigger than inyour town, in your city, in your country. It's so much bigger. And it helps,that sense of community will go a long way. So if you can join some form ofcommunity, if you can do something, please do. It'll help you.
Sonya Palmer:
The future of law is tech enabled and we have a uniqueopportunity to lead this transformation. Whether you're looking to innovatewithin your current role, start your own venture, or simply stay relevant inevolving industry, embracing legal tech is no longer optional, it's essential.
Remember, the legal tech space is filled with women. It'sa field where we're seen, heard and understood, so look for others in thisspace. And for those of you dreaming of starting your own legal tech venture,take Leah's advice to heart, save money, network relentlessly, even if you'rean introvert, and just start. Your efforts will pay off, even if not immediately.
As we close out this episode, I challenge each of you totake one step towards embracing legal tech this week. Whether it's signing upfor an online course, attending a legal tech meetup, or simply exploring AItools in your current practice. Every small step counts.
If you found this content insightful, inspiring, or itjust made you smile, please share this episode with the trailblazer in yourlife. For more about Leah, check out our show notes, and while you're there,please leave us a review or a five-star rating; it will really help othersdiscover the show. I will see you next week on LawHer, where we'll shed lighton how another of the brightest and boldest women in the legal industry climbedto the top of her field. Until next time, stay inspired, stay empowered, andkeep making waves in the legal industry. You've got this.
