153. Jordan Ostroff, Jordan Law – Automation and Marketing: Developing a Personalized Experience

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Managing partner of Jordan Law and President of LegalEase, Jordan Ostroff (@lawyerwithalife), takes the guesswork out of profit projections by cultivating a steady stream of clients. With 90% of his revenue coming from referrals, he shares how automation helps him create personal connections with clients and increase his bottom line. He explains how to get more reviews and how to dial in your marketing by better understanding your clients.

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What’s in This Episode:

  • Who is Jordan Ostroff?
  • How does automation make more time for personal interaction with clients?
  • Why did Jordan create his own legal marketing company?
  • How can a sales process be integrated with blog posts and digital ads?
  • How does niching increase the ROI on marketing?

Past Guests

Past guests on Personal Injury Mastermind: Brent Sibley, Sam Glover, Larry Nussbaum, Michael Mogill, Brian Chase, Jay Kelley, Alvaro Arauz, Eric Chaffin, Brian Panish, John Gomez, Sol Weiss, Matthew Dolman, Gabriel Levin, Seth Godin, David Craig, Pete Strom, John Ruhlin, Andrew Finkelstein, Harry Morton, Shay Rowbottom, Maria Monroy, Dave Thomas, Marc Anidjar, Bob Simon, Seth Price, John Gomez, Megan Hargroder, Brandon Yosha, Mike Mandell, Brett Sachs, Paul Faust, Jennifer Gore-Cuthbert

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Transcript

Jordan Ostroff:

The more consistent your sales process is, the more you can actually dial in your marketing.
Chris Dreyer:

Does this sound familiar? You have a slow month, call everyone back, get an influx of cases, you’re busy again, so you stop the calls?
Jordan Ostroff:

If we can cut some of that out through automation, through consistency, through tracking, then you get to have an actual science experiment behind any of these tweaks, as opposed to just being like, “Eh, spray and pray. We’ll see what happens.”
Chris Dreyer:

You’re listening to Personal Injury Mastermind, where we give you the tools you need to take your personal injury practice to the next level. If your caseload ebb and flows, there’s a good chance your bottom line is so unpredictable. To help create a firm with consistent and predictable revenue streams, we talk with Jordan Ostroff, managing partner of Jordan Law and president of LegalEase Marketing. 90% of Jordan’s revenue comes from referrals. He shares how to build a strong referral network, build a sales process during intake to track leads, and how to get more reviews. And how to dial in your marketing by better understanding your client.
I’m your host, Chris Dreyer, founder and CEO of Rankings.io. We help elite personal injury attorneys dominate first page rankings with search engine optimization. Being at the forefront of marketing is all about understanding people, so let’s get to know our guest. Here’s Jordan Ostroff, founder at Jordan Law.
Jordan Ostroff:

I got to be honest, having been a lawyer for over 10 years, there’s some days where I still don’t know what it actually requires. But literally, there are home videos of me at four or five years old being an asshole to my parents, by talking to them about being a lawyer, and why I was right, and arguing with them and whatever. So it was just one of those natural fits before you even know what it truly takes.
Chris Dreyer:

You’ve had a ton of experience handling thousands of cases as an assistant to the state’s attorney, so what inspired you to start your own firm? How did that come about?
Jordan Ostroff:

Part of it was I didn’t want to make $45,000 a year for the rest of my life when I was sending people to prison for their lives. Part of it was seeing the opportunity to have more flexibility. I know I wanted to have kids and whatnot, along those lines. Orlando is cool, there’s a ton of really good lawyers, so I definitely didn’t think that I could be better from that standpoint, but there were a lot of them that weren’t as tech forward, as businessy and whatnot, and so I was hoping that I’d be able to combine being a good lawyer with being a little bit more tech forward. And now come to find out, I don’t really lawyer anymore, but I have a firm that does, because of the technology, and the marketing, and the systems, and all those other things that I thought would have us standout, plus my lawyer abilities, the lawyer ability part’s no longer needed.
Chris Dreyer:

Florida’s incredibly saturated, there’s a ton of competition, there’s a lot of big players there. You got Dan Newlin, Morgan & Morgan, Dolan Law up in the north. And I read somewhere that you wanted to leverage legal tech, and you just mentioned it, to create a truly client-centered practice, so tell me about that. Tell me what technology you were looking at to really make that client-centric practice.
Jordan Ostroff:

At the time that I wrote that, I had no idea. I just knew that e-filing was a thing, and so all these lawyers that were phenomenal attorneys kicking my butt up and down the courtroom were like, “Oh my God, I need a computer to e-file now. I don’t know how to do that. How do I do this?” So I figured there was an opportunity. Since then, we’ve moved into… I love basically everything that Google puts together from a G-Suite platform. There’s a couple, we use Lawmatics as our CRM, there’s a lot of the cool case management systems out there that put that stuff together, that allow you to just have that replicability over and over again, so you can tweak things to be profitable, so the clients get similar experience, and then you really get the time to shine on an individualized and personalized basis.
Chris Dreyer:

A lot of times when I think of leverage, and we’re talking about labor leverage, talking about technology, specifically in this client-centric approach, I would think maybe you wanted that high touch, shaking the client’s hand. So how did you weigh the pros and cons of tech, versus the actual human? I know there’s a lot of costs involved, cost benefits, but how did you weigh those pros and cons? Because also, I wanted to ask you about this journey, where I know, for you, the attorney speaks to the client throughout this journey, where a lot of times it gets passed off.
Jordan Ostroff:

Yeah, man. Look, for me, those things are not mutually exclusive, they actually work together. If you’re not spending 30 minutes to edit a contract, if you’re not calling a client 27 times to shake them down for an e-signature on a document, or whatever it’s going to be, then you have that time to be personal, you have that time to truly listen to them, to truly talk to them, to truly help them through, from a PI perspective, finding the right provider, and what to expect when they’re going in for injections, or what an MRI is going to look like and feel like, and all those things, because you’re not doing a lot of the, for lack of a better term, bullshit administrative stuff that we have to do to run a business.
Chris Dreyer:

So I guess you gain a lot of efficiencies, we’re all looking for that utilization rate to be improved. I know PI thinks about it a lot differently because we’re all in contingency, but still that factors into your profit margins and how much you’re going to make on the case.
Jordan Ostroff:

Sure. And the client only has one case, so if you’re sitting here with 10 cases, 100 cases, 1,000 cases, they’re the one. They don’t care that you’re averaging out these things, they care about how they feel. And then the more that you turn them into a referral source, or repeat business, or them coming back to you, then you’re saving marketing spend. They know what to expect, they’re talking you up well to future clients, having been through the process. I mean, it’s just this flywheel. As much as that’s, I think, an overplayed term, it really does hit the nail on the head.
Chris Dreyer:

I don’t think that we’ve talked enough about the flywheel, so I’m going to ask you to expound for our audience, because I know where you’re going with this in terms of the referrals, but explain to me what you think of a flywheel.
Jordan Ostroff:

Sure, let’s go to Jim Collins’ Good to Great, right? We’ve got this giant oversized wheel, and you push on it, and guess what? Nothing happens. And you keep pushing on it and nothing happens. And you keep pushing on it and then it spins slowly. And you push again and it’s faster, and it’s faster, and it’s faster. The $5,000 case today, that that client becomes a referral source for a $5,000 case tomorrow, is now worth 10 grand over the lifetime value. And then you can spend that money on more people, and you can spend that money on more ads, and you can spend that money on more content. You have that opportunity to get more clients, to then maximize the value of their cases, and turn them into referral sources. It just builds and builds and builds, and so suddenly you’ve got that flywheel spinning, spinning, spinning, and spinning. Even though every push didn’t do much, it was just enough to keep it going on its own.
Chris Dreyer:

So many attorneys, they look at the direct response, that direct attribution, and that’s just a short approach to looking at these, right? Because referrals are non-linear. You can get one referral to introduce you to another referral, and then it has this exponential type of effect. Also, that’s why when I see the billboard attorneys, I’m like, “Well you also need to do radio, because they’re in the car.” Or if you’re doing SEO, it’s complimented by LSA and Google Ads, because you get more reviews, and it helps you in Maps, and it has all these benefits. Thank you for articulating that because there’s just so much power in it.
Jordan Ostroff:

Yeah, well, and… Look, I’ll share, I have no secrets. Let’s talk about referrals. So why should a firm refer to you? In most states you’ve got some sort of statutory requirement on the split of fees, but if they know that you are maximizing every client’s experience, they look better. If they know that you’re tracking the lifetime of that client, then they can be an associated attorney or referral fee on the next one that comes in from that client. If they know that you’re driving this work over and over again, they have a reason to refer to you, versus the 1.3 million other attorneys in the country, versus the 400,000 other firms that we have going on. That’s harder to explain the flywheel concept than some of the other metrics, but this is the one where it’s really easy to talk about the benefit of that one client today making you stand out for the next 10, 20, 30 years.
Chris Dreyer:

I’ve always wanted to know this, because there’s so many different types of firms. If we’re getting binary, we’re talking about the settlement, the negative connotation like the settlement mill, and then you’ve got the litigating firms, and you’ve got some hybrids, but then there’s this new firm that’s been created recently, it’s the referral firm. And the thing that I’ve always wondered, and I wanted to hear this from an attorney’s perspective, is they lose out on the referrals and the reviews in terms of that non-linear growth, how do they approach that in terms of reviews? How does that work? I’ve always wondered. I just feel like that’s such a huge loss in terms of the power of that review.
Jordan Ostroff:

This is the beauty of being a lawyer, and probably it applies to doctors. There’s a specialization aspect of it, right? Would you rather have 20% of a watermelon or 0% of a grape, or 100% of the grape, whatever it’s going to look like? You’ve got this opportunity to get the client into the right hands, so the client comes back to you for the stuff that you do, for the stuff that you can send to other people, you get a financial incentive of it.
And look, to the extent of reviews, maybe there’s a way where you get the client to have such a good experience to leave a review for both firms, but ultimately, that firm sends you back business law cases, and hopefully you get some extra reviews from that because they’re talking you up. There’s a specialization of the client’s experience that makes them more likely to leave a review for the thing that that firm does over and over again. That works in both directions to maximize their exposure.
But from that lawyer perspective, and even inside a PI, maybe you’ve got a firm that does really good on the low level soft tissue, they’re a high volume. You’ve got a firm that does a high touch when there’s some sort of product liability case. The brakes didn’t work, and there may be a back and forth referral basis because it’s not worth the larger firm’s time. But in the other case, it’s not worth the knowledge base of the larger firm to go with the more specific case. You’re the king of niche, right? You can niche this all the way, to niche up each individual firm, based upon the client’s experience and the ultimate resolution.
Chris Dreyer:

That’s where I was going in terms of the trial attorneys too. They’re the ones that are known for their specialization, because they can go deeper and provide more value. You really practice what you preach. You got over 150 reviews, 4.9 rating, amazing review rating, and I read somewhere where you have 90% of your cases come from referrals. So out of that other 10%, what’s the marketing mix look like? Because I’ve heard, in some cases, where referrals, it’s like feast or famine, you can’t depend upon them, so where does that other 10% fall in terms of growing your firm?
Jordan Ostroff:

I’ve got the marketing company for lawyers, so that other 10% is us trying out new random crap and seeing what clicks. So trying out LSAs, whatever it was, two, three years ago and going through a lot of those things. We’ll mix up a lot of the other efforts to make sure that we’re maximizing the exposure, to make sure that we’re open to different eyeballs that aren’t necessarily in our normal network, and trying those things out. But I always love for every firm to go back to that foundation of referrals, that covers the overhead that gets you through all that stuff, and then any advertising, then normal stuff becomes the bonuses, becomes the growth opportunities, whether it’s size, or location, or whatever that’s going to be.
Chris Dreyer:

Yeah, I had to imagine that’s where you’re getting just extremely low cost per acquisition, in terms of those clients, is from the referrals. Some of the big advertising firms that I work with, they’re shooting for those numbers. Depending upon the channel, they’d be happy with a $1,000 case acquisition cost, but where you’re getting under a thousand is from those referrals, or from the brand, from that flywheel that you’re talking about.
Jordan Ostroff:

Sure. And it’s a beautiful thing, that conversation with a client. I appreciate you took the effort to look at our reviews. We have clients calling us like, “Will you please take my case? I want to make sure that you will take me”, as opposed to for so long I was always like, “Am I going to be the right lawyer fit for you?”, from reading those reviews. Or from getting the experience from their neighbor, “Hey look, Sally told me you guys did a phenomenal job. I want the same experience that she had.” And every case is going to be different, and lawyer caveat, ethical caveat, whatever. But it’s such a different sales experience, it’s such a different onboarding experience, it’s such a different client experience from that perspective, as opposed to like, “Yeah, I saw this thing on Google, and I really need a lawyer, and I’m in pain. I called three people and you answered first.”
Chris Dreyer:

The buyer’s journey’s really changed. I’ve heard Chris Walker from his Demand Gen podcast talking about creating demand and capturing demand, and the differences where the buyer behavior, it used to, they would just go to Google, do a search and contact someone. But now they’re reading reviews, they’re going to social media, they’re asking their friends, they’re having these conversations behind closed doors type of thing, in the DMs, and it’s just changed. And that’s where I see reviews really standing out even more so than ever in this day and age.
Jordan Ostroff:

I think you and I will hammer the track all of your leads as much as possible metric. But I still always tell people to ask, because you’re going to find that weird, like, “Oh, I saw you speak at some conference several years ago, and then I, no offense, forgot about you. Then my neighbor told me about you when I got hurt. Then I looked you up and I was like, ‘Oh yeah, it was that guy.’ And then I followed your social media for a couple weeks. And I went with another lawyer, but now I’m pissed at them.” It’s insane to me, but I think that it’s better for the client, because they, in theory, are getting a more holistic view of the firm, as opposed to being like, “I opened the yellow pages and this was the largest ad, so I called that firm.”
Chris Dreyer:

I couldn’t agree more. One of the best things that we did, and I would recommend a lot of firms do this, is on your contact form, just put how did you hear about us? And let them type it in. And just start to aggregate that data and you kind of get a story, you start to understand how these individuals are truly finding you. As opposed to, I know I see a lot of firms, they’ll just do the pre-selection. They’ll say social, Google, they pigeonhole them into those options, as opposed to letting them tell the story.
Jordan Ostroff:

Totally. Well, and you have the ones where they posted in a local Facebook group, and one of your prior clients said you were a great option, and then they Googled you and then they called you, and they’re like, “Oh, I found you through Google.” And you’re like, “No, you found me through a direct search from something else.” But don’t be a jerk to your clients when they’re giving you slightly bad information about what they were doing.
Chris Dreyer:

Jordan is not afraid to try new marketing strategies. He tests his ideas through LegalEase, the marketing agency he created after getting disappointing results from vendors.
Jordan Ostroff:

Came up to Orlando to go to UCF for undergrad, stayed here to go to law school, stayed here as a prosecutor. So I started my own firm having been in Orlando for 10 years, working with lawyers and judges and whatever, through fake trials, and being my professor and whatnot. I generated a weirdly high amount of money for having no clue. And I was like, “This is awesome. I’m going to hire a marketing company, we’re going to accelerate this thing, and I’m going to be hanging out on my yacht.” When I tell you that I cut $130,000 marketing budget, and made $5,000 less from 2017 to 2018, because of the natural growth of the firm, I was like, “This makes no sense. This has to be possible.”
I see so many people talking about great marketing, I’ve met so many great marketing companies since, I just couldn’t find them. So I was like, “Oh, I’m just going to build it. Let’s see how it goes.” That was the impetus to try and help more attorneys avoid the churn of bad marketing for $200,000, $300,000 that I couldn’t afford to throw out the window.
Chris Dreyer:

There are a lot of charlatans out there. Here’s the thing, I think most people are inherently good. I don’t think they intend to be bad, I just don’t think they have an awareness of how competitive the legal market is. As an attorney, you understand, so when you get a quote for SEO for $1,000 a month in a competitive market, they just may not have enough resources to get the job done. And the other thing is, we all outsource. We all go out to eat, we all go out to dinner, it’s not like we’re cooking our own steak meals and turkey sandwiches. But just because you have a bad meal doesn’t mean that all of them are bad. You may just need to order something else or go to a different restaurant. So in terms of that, what does your agency offer to help clients and stand out?
Jordan Ostroff:

You know you go to that bar and there’s that bartender that really gets it, and they ask you three questions and they make you a drink you’ve never had before that just blows your mind? That’s us. We put together these real holistic marketing plans based upon their ideal client. I know this sounds crazy, but literally through 14 something companies, nobody ever asked me this question or did this for me, and it completely changes everything. Because we will talk to somebody about marketing strategy and they’ll be like, “Oh this actually makes sense.” We’re like, “Yeah. Your ideal client is currently doing X, they get into an accident, we’re going to put you in spot Y to find them, or this other company’s going to do that to get the execution side of it.”
And it’s crazy because before that I feel like you would have a better opportunity as the marketing company if your clients understood the purpose behind it, but it takes that extra 30-minute phone call, or that extra presentation, versus being like, “Just trust me. Give me a bunch of money, let me run these ads. Just trust me on this and we’ll make it work”, without any of that back and forth questioning.
Chris Dreyer:

Prescription without diagnosis is malpractice, so a lot of diagnosis, a lot of back and forth conversation. So what you’re saying is a more bespoke approach. It’s like, “Hey, I’m going to analyze your current situation and these are the things that I think you should be doing and you would get the most benefit from.”
Jordan Ostroff:

Yes. And let’s build you… Like technology. Let’s build you an actual sales process or intake system that tracks all these leads. So when Chris gets up here and writes, or your team writes a bunch of phenomenal blog posts, let’s UTM code each of those. Now we know that 60% of your clients come from the blog post where you talk about trucking cases, 30% come from Lyft and Uber accidents, and only 10% come from more standard PI writing. Then you could put that information back into the system and double down on the efforts that actually work. And you can tweak the follow-up to see if you can get the close rate from 60% to 65%. And you just science experiment this whole thing.
Chris Dreyer:

So it’s full cycle, it’s from attraction to acquisition, so you’re really helping with the awareness as well as the intake, building the systems and the attribution so that you can scale?
Jordan Ostroff:

Correct. The only thing we won’t do, if you suck at consults, I can’t help you, but I can give you five different names to help you be a better salesperson, or a better closer, or whatever you want to call it. But just in terms of that, we talked about there not being a consistent client journey, but the more consistent your sales process is, the more you can actually dial in your marketing. I’m a lawyer, we all know this, you have those months where you’re not busy, so you call everybody back, and then you get a bunch of cases, and now you’re busy so you stop calling people back, and then you get the huge ebb and flow of cases. If we can cut some of that out through automation, through consistency, through tracking, then you get to have an actual science experiment behind any of these tweaks, as opposed to just being like, “Eh, spray and pray. We’ll see what happens.”
Chris Dreyer:

I love that analogy. So give me a couple examples, what’s a case study that stands out? I think it would really serve the audience too.
Jordan Ostroff:

Let me just use us as an example to be easier for the sake of this.
Chris Dreyer:

Sure.
Jordan Ostroff:

Like you talked about, we’ve got Morgan & Morgan. Morgan & Morgan’s main office is two golf shots, if I was better at golf, away from my office, we are in the same boat. So how do we differentiate ourselves? Because honestly, I love them. I have so many people that have worked there that have nice things to say about them. They are totally a different clientele from ours. They help our clients understand that they’re not bad people for having a case. Because our clients are more blue collar professionals, they’re the realtor, they’re the teacher, they’re the cop, or they’re the PTA parent who’s more concerned about their kids.
So we’re going through a process of rebranding our firm to make our colors a little bit less… We’re very Americana, red, white, and blue. We’re going to a little bit more muted, red, white, and blue. We’re taking my name off the firm because I don’t talk to clients anymore, so what’s the point of people calling for Jordan, when Jordan’s not there the same way? So then we focus all of our stuff back to those.
For presentations, let’s go to the teacher’s union and present, let’s go to the conference over there. If we’re going to run radio ads, let’s run ads on the common station of all the top 40 hits for kids, but let’s hammer that during pick up and drop off time. So now we’re taking this and we know that our PTA parent’s right there, or our teachers doing their study break right after the kids are done. Let’s try and fill that spot, as opposed to middle of the day, or even as opposed to a normal nine to five, four to six, because our client’s not driving at that exact same timeframe.
And so the more you get specific with that, the easier it is for what you say, for where you say it, for when you say it, for how you say it. And then you put a lot of the value in there, because we know our clients actually don’t care about money first, they care about their job, they care about their family, they care about their kids, they care about those things. So knowing some of our best referral sources are car brokers, they can find somebody a car quickly that fits their specific need, they can help them maximize the value from a property damage standpoint, they can jump on those things, whereas more of a big PI mill may not have the time for those things, may not see enough of financial benefit, or may not have a client who needs those at the same rate that our clients have that be their main issue.
Chris Dreyer:

You started with the, “Hey, how are we different? How do we have this unique selling proposition? How we stand out?” You even talked as granular as your colors, and how you’re going to be represented on the site. Then you got into targeting. So here’s our common avatar, some firms may have multiple avatars, but this is our common one, and because we know that person, we know where to advertise, instead of just, “Let’s go do Google Ads. Let’s go do grassroot marketing.”
Jordan Ostroff:

Yeah. You mentioned Dan Newlin, Dan Newlin has the best advertisement. It’s the, “Dan got me X dollars.” Why? Because I’ve seen 50 other firms steal this and try to use it for theirs. That’s not my client, that’s not who I want. I want, “Jordan Law helped me get healthy and make my kids not have to miss school.” “Jordan Law helped me get through a PI case without losing my job.” That’s the messaging or the billboard that I want, but for that being on a billboard. So it’s not even a competition, although it’s the same type of case, it’s a totally different clientele, it’s a totally different interest, it’s a totally different psychographic of that person. So it makes much easier to say no to so many things and dive into what makes sense for us, for our client, for our brand.
Chris Dreyer:

I want to go a little bit deeper, and I was going to move away from this, but you mentioned the key word that we haven’t talked about, and I think this is really valuable. So we can talk about demographics, we can talk about geographic, but you mentioned psychographic, so let’s just expand on that. When we’re talking about building an avatar, what do you mean by psychographic? You already alluded to it, but how do you think of that when considering your avatar?
Jordan Ostroff:

I’ll back up for a second. Demographic is who, geographic is where, psychographic is why. Why does somebody need you? Why does somebody want to hire you? What is the mental stuff that’s going to impact them? And I will tell you, look, for anybody listening to this, if you take nothing away from this except this one point, this is the most important thing I want to hammer to you, well, I guess second one, have an ideal client. But interview them, interview your clients afterwards. What did we do great? What could we have done better? How did this truly transform your life? What would you say to somebody else who was interested in hiring a firm? What’s something we didn’t do that would’ve helped you through one of your biggest times of need? And by seeing those consistent answers, that’s how we found out about the car broker thing.
A bunch of clients were like, “We’d love to hear more about how you could have helped us with the car. We’d love to hear how we could get into a new vehicle sooner.” Great, we addressed that problem. So now in a lot of the, not necessarily paid advertising, but from a social media perspective, or a phone call during the consult, we’re talking about those things. Get me a contact with this person. We get you a big check at the end of it, I want you to sit down with a financial advisor. Every PI lawyer worth their salt has a client who blew $50,000 in seven days because they never had the money, so let’s try and address some of those issues on a specific basis.
So you do that at the end, and then you tie it back into the messaging at the beginning about the differentiating factor, about the unique selling proposition, about the uniqueness, whatever you want to call it. It goes back to not just who, but why they should hire you, why you’re the best fit for them.
Chris Dreyer:

That’s fantastic. I love the retrospective component, and how it’s just consistent, and how you get so much information, and how you can truly solve their pains and become a person of more value. So when they’re telling this story after their case is over, it spreads, it’s viral, it’s word of mouth, and other individuals want to have a similar experience, because they probably congregate with the same type of people.
Jordan Ostroff:

Yeah, well, look, nobody wants to hire you, Chris. Nobody wants to hire me for anything. Nobody wants to hire a marketing company. You want more cases, you want more profitable cases, you want more of the right cases. Nobody wants to hire a lawyer. You want to get through this and not be in pain for life. You want to know that you have the financial resources to take care of yourself and your family as you have limited physical ability. You want to not go to prison for the rest of your life. Whatever it is, nobody wants to hire a lawyer, but they have a problem that we can address that is very specific, and the more that you can be that specific, the easier you’re going to stand out.
Chris Dreyer:

So not only do you own a firm, you’ve got your legal marketing company, but you’re also the host of a podcast. So tell us about the podcast, the name of the podcast, what can listeners expect or take away when they tune in?
Jordan Ostroff:

Sure, man. Look, if you are niched into an industry, you need a podcast. Because if you… Listen, if you’re on LinkedIn, you get a thousand messages every day. “Hey, can we do a virtual coffee chat so I can tell you more about my services?” And if you’re like me, you say no. But if somebody was like, “Hey man, I want to interview you for an hour on my podcast”, I say yes to every one of those. I don’t ask them what their viewership numbers are, I don’t ask them how many episodes, I’m jumping on and we get to have a chat.
I mean, honestly, that’s how Chris and I met. Somebody that he hired pitched a thing, and I looked at the guy, and I looked at Chris’s stuff, and I was like, “This sounds like my kind of SEO jam. It’s not the snake oil crap that everyone else is doing. I want to talk to this guy.” And would we have chatted for 15 or 30 minutes on an email thread? I don’t know. But you came on for an hour show, and then we stayed in touch and I’m on this show. You have such a great opportunity to do those things.
And it goes back to the same thing, like interviewing clients. We mix lawyers and experts on. So lawyers share their story, and they talk about their pain points, and they explain the bad marketing, and they explain what’s worked for them. We get experts to talk about, what are the changes in the industry? I just got off an episode now where we did the seven steps to better systems and processes, and I learned a ton. I mean, I’m sitting here listening, asking whatever questions I want to learn what I want to know, on something that they easily could have sold for $5,000. The information that I got on how to build a better system, well worth that on a one-hour webinar.
Chris Dreyer:

I was going to say the exact same thing. For the podcast, it ends up being a feedback loop. You get a lot of great education, you get to learn things. Also, it’s like a keynote presentation from your home, right, as compared to standing on stage, where you get to influence so many people. It’s a keynote presentation every week, so huge advocate for a podcast. We got to tune in and check out your podcast. What’s next, and how can people get in touch with you?
Jordan Ostroff:

LegalEasemarketing.com, E-A-S-E. The entire company is based off a dad joke. And it turns out to actually be super true because we’re translating legalese, E-S-E, into marketing speak, and then marketing speak and legalese into normal human conversation. So that worked out better than I would’ve expected.
What’s next for us, man? Just keep doing what we’re doing. We’re working with a hundred something firms across the country on the technology stuff, on the marketing plans and helping them through that. We don’t take conflicts, so I’m conflicted out in a bunch of spots. We’re looking for those right, mid-market, with a decent marketing budget, that allows us to help the firm stand out to the right people.
Chris Dreyer:

No matter how large your caseload is, your client only has one case, and they care how they feel when working with you. Automation helps free up time otherwise spent on administration to get personal with each client. When you automate the client process using tech like client management services, you free up your time to shine with personalized interactions with the client.
On your forms, leave space for clients to write out how they feel and how they found you, don’t pigeonhole them into pre-selected dropdown menus. As you get more responses, patterns will begin to emerge, helping you better know the pain points of your clients. When you truly understand your ideal client, you know their habits, family structure, and where they hang out physically and digitally. It allows you to make strategic branding and marketing decisions that give you a better ROI.
I’d like to thank Jordan Ostroff from Jordan Law for sharing his story with us, and I hope you gained some valuable insights from the conversation. You’ve been listening to Personal Injury Mastermind, I’m Chris Dreyer. If you liked this episode, leave us a review, we’d love to hear from our listeners. I’ll catch you on next week’s PIMM with another incredible guest and all the strategies you need to master personal injury marketing.

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