48. Jordan Harbinger, The Jordan Harbinger Show Charisma, Networking, And Podcasting Success

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Jordan Harbinger is the king of charisma and the master of getting leads. His hugely successful podcast The Jordan Harbinger show has seen him talking to some of the world’s biggest names in science, tech, sports, marketing, you name it! But how did he get such an impressive network?

Today, we hear Jordan’s fascinating origin story from Wall Street law firm intern to becoming the Larry King of podcasting. He explains how he creates phenomenal content with his audience front of mind, how he forged a bulletproof network that comes out to bat for him, and what a couple of old British politicians can teach us about the real meaning of charisma.

Whats in This Episode:
Who is Jordan Harbinger?
How Jordan started his podcast from a networking class in a Michigan dive bar
What’s the real value of hosting a podcast in 2020?
Your audience comes first: how to create amazing content
Why true charisma is not really about you at all
Networking during a pandemic: how personal injury attorneys can get ahead
Drills to help you stoke your warm leads

Transcript

Chris Dreyer

I’m going to hazard a guess here that if you’re listening to this podcast and you’ve got more than a passing interest in marketing, am I right? There are 1,000,001 marketing hacks being touted by experts and most of them won’t get you very far. However, there’s one golden rule that has stood the test of time: when you find your niche doubled down and dig deeper. Today’s guest did just that. He started out interning at a wall street law firm, but his networking and marketing prowess soon pulled him in a different way.

Jordan Harbinger

The people who brought in business for the firm were the people who made it to the top is what I learned from one of the partners. So I was like, I got to learn how to bring in business. How the hell do I do that?

Chris Dreyer

Today, we talk to the legendary podcast host and self-development coach Jordan Harbinger about how we started one of the world’s biggest podcasts from a Michigan dive bar, why value-based content beats any new trick in the marketing playbook, and what a couple of old British politicians can tell us about true charisma. That’s coming up on The Rankings Podcast, the show where founders, entrepreneurs, and elite personal injury attorneys share their inspiring stories about what they did to get to the top and what keeps them there. I’m Chris Dreyer, stay with us. Jordan Harbinger is best known for his podcast The Jordan Harbinger show, which features some of the biggest names in business, tech, science, you name it. Fresh out of law school, Jordan got the bug for networking. He started out experimenting with different techniques and tricks with the goal of expanding his contacts. And as it turned out, he was pretty awesome at it.

Jordan Harbinger

I started teaching this networking class at the University of Michigan Law School for young lawyers and nobody cared. It was like three women would show up and I go like, how come nobody wants to learn this? And the women actually had really good insight. They told me that women 15 years ago in law school were saying, we need to learn this because Wall Street, financial stuff, law, that’s changing, but we really need to learn how to like network, develop relationships, connections, stick together. And a lot of the guys were like, I don’t care about connections and relationships. I’m going to go work on Wall Street and make a bunch of money and I don’t need anybody else. And that’s not true for men or for women, but for guys, we just didn’t have to worry as much about it. And women knew that they were starting off at the time, especially with the disadvantage and that relationships were going to be more important. And so then I realized, you know, look, if I’ve got three or four women showing up, they occasionally bring a friend or two, let’s just do this at a bar because it’s air-conditioned, we can get something to drink. It doesn’t have to be in, you know, 99 degrees, uh, Hutchins Hall at University of Michigan sweating our faces off. So, we started doing it at a bar and then they would bring other women and we’d start observing people who are on dates or not on dates, and I’d be breaking down body language and they would sort of play along. And that became kind of what we had focused on is nonverbal communication. And then this started to get really fun, it was like a game. So, then the women started bringing a lot of their friends some of them not lawyers, didn’t even matter who. And then eventually guys were like, so you’re here two, three nights a week always with different women, what’s the story? And I’m like, I’m teaching a class. So they’re like, Oh, I want to be in this class. So, I started getting guys showing up and the guys would show up and they would be like, this is so interesting, I want to know all about this. So, then it became more of a dating class and less of a networking class. And that was kind of how this whole thing started because I started to burn my, my talks and conversations to CDs, give away the CDs and then I started charging for the CDs because people weren’t bringing them back. And then I started, I realized I’m not going to get rich off these CDs. The classes are more lucrative, um, because I can charge people who are not part of the law school to come to the classes. So I started to give away these CDs and sell these CDs, and then it just started to get popular. And I said, you know, I’m sick of carrying these things around. I need to put these files on the internet. And someone said, well, podcasting is this brand new thing, it’s probably about a year old. You can upload your files to the internet and people can download the MP3s. And I said, wow, what is this sorcery? I uploaded the files. And that was the beginning of the podcast, but it really was about networking. And then it just immediately pivoted to dating because I realized no 20 something is like, how do I network and develop relationships there? They’re just not thinking about that, they think they don’t need it. And even if they do think they need it, if they’re anything like me, they think I’m going to need this when I’m 50. Not when I’m 25. Right?

Chris Dreyer

Right. And, you know, what’s interesting is as nowadays those emotional intelligence skills, those empathy, and soft skills are so valuable. It seems like everyone has the hard skills and, but the, the social cues, the emotional intelligence it’s just something everyone’s looking for. And I remember listening to a different interview you did, and I think you were like one of 800 for podcasts, and, and now I don’t even know what the number is

Jordan Harbinger

A million and a half podcasts now, literally.

Chris Dreyer

That’s just incredible. And so I’d love for you to tell our audience that story of the first time you had someone in a different country.

Jordan Harbinger

Yeah. Yeah. So, so we put the files online thinking, all right, we’re going to print up little like homemade business cards, like inkjet, you know, putting some cardstock print off the thing with the URL on it that was like, whatever.com. I don’t even remember what it was. Let’s say Jordanharbinger.com, but it wasn’t that back then and leave them in bathrooms at bars and hand them out to people that are curious and tell them, you know, that way we’ll get more people who are listening to what we’re doing. And it’s funny, cause I still have listeners that found those cards a bajillion years ago in Ann Arbor and like still listened to the Jordan Harbinger show and write in and you know, some of them, many of them I’ve met in real life now and we’re friends. It’s really, really funny, the longevity of podcasting. But I started to do that and then I would look at this thing, this old thing that I’m sure it doesn’t exist anymore, this old website called site meter. And it was like, how many hits you got? So I would look at the hits every day and you’d be like 24. And I was like, oh my God, 24 people, 24 people found it, you know? And then they added a world map to site meter and I went, oh, okay, so let’s see where these people are around us, like maybe somebody told somebody else about this, or like lives far away. And we’ll see like where they are in Ann Arbor or where they are in Southeastern Michigan. And I remember looking and being like South Africa. Who’s in Gauteng, South Africa. What is that? I’m Googling it, you know, at that, or yahooing it probably at the time and looking it up and going, like what? So I, I remember just being so excited and going, I don’t get it. Is that a glitch I wrote to cite meter? I said, hey, something’s wrong, I got people in Canada. I’ve got people, but there’s no way they would have found it. It’s not. How would they have found it? And they’re like, no, no, no. These are the IP addresses where people are downloading your stuff. And I just thought like, okay, so on the show, which wasn’t even a show at that point, I said, Hey, are you listening to us? And you’re not in Ann Arbor, Michigan, where are you? And somebody from Toronto would write in. And then somebody would say, yeah, I’m a game warden in South Africa. I take your podcasts. I download them. I burn them to CDs and I play them in my Jeep, as I’m driving around this game, reserve park or whatever. And I was just thinking, this is incredible because I was burning these CDs and uploaded them. And now you’re taking the file and downloading. Bear in mind, it’s not as amazing now as it was back then, nobody had any media online, first of all, barely any there certainly weren’t downloadable radio shows that were international in scope, really, and then to be able to show that there was somebody in another country listening to what we were doing and like writing in and emailing with us was incredible. So to be able to get media to the other side of the world immediately, Was absolutely bonkers. There was nothing like it. There was no YouTube social media didn’t exist. Facebook was limited to Harvard, Yale, Michigan, Virginia, whatever it was. So that was mind-blowing. And I went, okay. I don’t exactly know what’s going on here, but the fact that this has international listeners. We are onto something, you know, there’s something here that is sort of magical. And this is the beginning of either a business or just like a really cool concept. I’m going to track this. And I think it’s clear now that we were really like gazing into the future of the internet at that point.

Chris Dreyer

What’s so interesting is, is nowadays it seems like it’s the next podcast, boom, with what’s happening with coronavirus and things like that. I think people are looking for different opportunities and what’s crazy is the reach and how it can act as your whole flywheel for content production. You know, we’re doing video, that’s going to go on YouTube, it’s going on Spotify, Apple, everything. And you saw that early and you built a following to just that compounded consistent efforts. And so you’ve talked to professional athletes, celebrities, and you’ve talked to science and tech specialists, you know, what’s your main interest on who’s going to come on the show? Is it just anyone that’s entertaining? What are you looking for currently?

Jordan Harbinger

Good question. So I really do follow my own interests to a certain point, but I also follow things that are not necessarily only my own interests. I try to get interested in things when they’re presented to me. So if someone says, hey, this is the former national security advisor. I’m not like, wow, I’m fascinated, but I’m like, this is probably somebody who’s going to be interesting. Let me figure out how to get interested. Not that hard to get interested in that, by the way. But other times, even if I am interested, I can’t do it. Like if it’s just too niche and there’s no sort of following there’s no sort of through-line of psychology or human performance like there’s no lesson, maybe that the audience is going to take away from it, I can’t do it right. If I had a favorite sport, which I don’t necessarily have, you can’t just sort of fanboy your favorite whoever because it’s a podcast. I really do keep the audience in mind. I always keep the audience in mind. What are they going to get from this? Even if I can nerd out on something, I do have to think. Is this going to be worth it for 250,000 people to spend an hour listening to, and you don’t come up with a yes all the time.

Chris Dreyer

I think that is if I could ring a bell, I think that’s just this fire for any marketing tactic. It’s about them. It’s, it’s, you’re the Yoda, you’re the mentor. And you’re just, you’re trying to provide value to the audience, but, uh, you know, for our audience listening, you know, personal injury attorneys, so niche they’re serving prospects, they don’t know when an individual’s going to get hurt, what would be a reason that they should consider podcasting?

Jordan Harbinger

Let’s start with the reason not to podcast, do not podcast to make money. It’s probably the worst way to make money on the internet. I’m exaggerating, but probably not by much. It’s really hard to monetize. You need a huge following in order to monetize it. If you’re a YouTuber and you’re only getting 500 plays per video, you’re making like a dollar right off that or something, dollar 50, not much, but you’ll make that nobody’s even going to sell an ad on your show until you start hitting 5,000, 10,000, 15,000 downloads per episode consistently. And then you’re going to make money off of that, but it’s not enough to pay the bills. You can use it as lead gen to sell courses and things like that, of course. But I’m just talking about like purely from an ad model perspective, it’s not a great way to just sort of instantly get rich quick, uh, on the internet. So, but I think it’s great. If you want to talk with interesting people, create a platform, especially if you have a niche, that’s not like I just talked to anybody I want about anything I want. You’re kind of commoditizing yourself, so you better be freaking hilarious and also have access to a great roster of guests, things like that. But if you’re like, I’m really good at marketing pet stores, you know, this is the pet store marketing podcast, you can kill it because pet store owners across the United States and Canada are going to listen to the pet store ownership marketing podcast. And then you get sponsored from certain pet brands and things like that. And you can really make a living or add onto your living as a pet store owner doing that type of show. And so the niche is where it’s at, but if you’re trying to be like mass market, it’s never recommended. You see certain comedians doing it, but you’ve got to think, okay, this is a comedian that’s built a following over 10 15, 20 years now. They’re taking what’s essentially a social media following or a Netflix following or both, and they can’t tour anymore so they’re doing live shows on podcasts or non-live to tape shows on podcasts and they’re making their living that way. Great. But if you’re just kind of coming up and you’re like, I don’t want to get a real job, I’m going to start a podcast. I don’t recommend that at all, because I think starting just about any other type of business is going to be more lucrative and probably be faster.

Chris Dreyer

One of the things that kind of makes me think about, you know, the comedians is, is the charisma and the they’re just conditioned to be great people that can entertain an interview. And I’ve heard in a lot of your interviews that the word come up, charisma just pops up all the time. So, so let’s talk about that a little bit. You know, what, what is your definition of charisma and just in general?

Jordan Harbinger

A lot of people think being charismatic as being loud or outgoing or opinionated or whatever it is that may play a part to a woman once described the difference between meeting this leading Victorian English politician, or they’re both actually leading Victorian English, politicians, William Gladstone and Benjamin Disraeli is, this is like some 19th-century stuff. They were both seeking election as the British prime minister and she said after attending a dinner with William Gladstone, I thought he was the most interesting person in the world. She said, however, after having dinner with Benjamin Disraeli, I thought I was the most interesting person in the world. So that’s the difference between different types of charisma. Yes. Somebody might be very charismatic and engaging, but the best kind of charisma is the type that makes the person interacting with you feel good not just entertained. So the other person might’ve been like in awe. Wow. They’re so great. They’re so entertaining. They’re so charismatic, but when they feel great, they associate that with you and therefore that’s just an entirely different kind of infectious charisma. Right.

Chris Dreyer

Yeah, and it’s, again, it’s about them, it makes them feel good. And I think we’ve all been in those situations at a social gathering where it’s just kind of awkward, you do the small talk, but as soon as you get that individual talking about themselves, the doors are open, the flood gates are open for conversation.

Jordan Harbinger

Exactly.

Chris Dreyer

So let’s talk about networking a little bit. You talk about it on your shows, you have a six-minute networking course on your website, and it’s clearly something that you’ve been interested in since you were at university. So what’s the difference between networking and simply just giving someone your card at a party?

Jordan Harbinger

Yeah. So that’s a great question as well, because a lot of people think networking is be making yourself known. And it kind of goes to what we were talking about with charisma and being engaging. If a lot of people have my contact information, so what? But if I have the ability to call upon other people, especially a lot of them, for help with something or to get something and they will pick up the phone, take my call willingly helped me without being prodded over and over again, that’s a network, right? A network is when I can reach out and I don’t have to go, hey, this is kind of weird, a little awkward, but would you mind maybe sharing this with your audience? That’s not a great network, right? That’s you having a bunch of people’s information and marketing to them or asking them for something, what you want is a network that wants to help you back. Right. You’re giving without the expectation of anything in return. That’s how you build things like a network. So I’m constantly trying to introduce people to each other strengthened network ties, re-engage people that I haven’t talked to in a really long time, keep up with people that I haven’t talked to in ages, make sure that they’re doing well, see if there’s anything I can do for them. But of course always connecting them to one another that way. If I ever do need anything, I have people I can reach out to of course, but also people around me are thinking, man, that Jordan guy, he’s just a machine, he introduced me to this person and that person, like what a good person I’m building referral currency, right. I might never cash it in and that’s great, usually you’re never going to, you could help a hundred people and maybe 10 of them are able to ever do something for you. And it’s fine, you shouldn’t be keeping score. You shouldn’t be doing things because of what’s in it for you just keep giving without the attachment or expectation of getting anything in return. And you build a ton of referral currency, and that’s a better way to live because it builds stronger relationships around you. It helps with everything from yes, being able to ask them to market your silly book, you know, that you come out within a year, but also it helps protect your reputation. I heard from a friend recently, they said, Hey, somebody said something about you about this, you know, you might want to straighten that out. And I go, oh, okay, thanks. So I texted the person. I said, hey, I heard there’s a misunderstanding. And I ended up chatting with them and they said, you know, it’s funny. I talked with a couple of people about this and all of them said, you must be mistaken because Jordan would never do that. And I thought that’s a good network, right there. A bunch of people said it couldn’t possibly the thing in question was someone said, Oh, I talked to him on the phone. He’s arrogant, he’s a jerk. And they’re like this whole party, like the needle came off the record and people said, no, no, no, no, no, no. That’s…I don’t think so. Maybe you caught him in a bad mood, but I don’t think so. I’ve known him for years. Oh no. That’s the guy. Hey, that guy introduced me to you. Oh, that guy. No, he did this thing for me. Oh, he did this other thing for me now he introduced me to this other person. And so this woman who had said that was like, huh, okay, well, whatever, um, that’s unusual. And then it turned out that it was another person that had a similar name and it wasn’t me. And I thought, oh, how interesting. Because, you know, if you just kind of have like a lukewarm reputation with a bunch of folks that you just go, oh man, I heard this person doesn’t like, Jordan, well, that’s weird. But it was enough where people went, Hey, just for what it’s worth to think you’re probably wrong. And then another person said, yeah, I overheard that. I think you’re probably wrong. You know, you, you don’t get that from just being a nice guy once you don’t get them from that, from looking them in the eye and having a firm handshake. Right? You get that from a consistent pattern of generous actions over a long period of time. And you get people sticking up for you and making your reputation travels in a way that’s not even, you don’t even have to do anything and it’s constantly reinforced. And then it’s hard for somebody to say, hey, this guy screwed me over and then have it actually damage you cause people won’t even believe it.

Chris Dreyer

You know, you’re doing something right when your sphere of influence literally comes out to bat for you. It reminds me a lot of my conversation on the podcast with John Ruhlin about Giftology in that being generous and non-transactional in your interactions brings amazing benefits that you can’t, and shouldn’t, try to anticipate. While John talked a lot about stoking your warm leads, Jordan is the master of finding new ones. Networking during the pandemic seems next to impossible. So I asked Jordan to share his top tips for PIs wanting to get ahead of the game.

Jordan Harbinger

There are definitely techniques to this. I won’t shamelessly plug my six-minute networking thing, unless you want me to, I can say it again. So it’s a free course, so there’s no upsells. So I don’t really see the harm in it, but I always like to ask it. It is at Jordan harbinger.com/course I have drills in there. I’ll give you a couple right now. One of course that we talk about is that ABG always be giving, which is that give without the expectation or attachment of anything in return that’s instead of ABC always be closing, you’ve seen Glengarry Glen Ross, that movie. So a lot of people think what’s in it for me, I’m always closing. And the analogy I give in this situation is that, so let’s say we’re at a party and I go, all right, I need a personal injury attorney because, uh, for some unfortunate reason, I walk into this party and I go, all right, I’m going to find a referral this way. And the first person I talked to, I say, hey, how are you doing? Oh, Hey, what are you? What’s going on? We start talking about what we do. She’s a graphic designer. I immediately don’t care. I’m bored. I’m looking over our shoulder. I excuse myself to go do something else. I go and I talk to a couple more people. None of them are personal injury attorneys. They don’t know any personal injury attorneys. So then I move along and I’ve just meeting a bunch of other, you know, irrelevant professionals and they’re kind of going. All right. I guess this guy didn’t like us or something, right. I’m just sort of like not using those opportunities and at worst, probably we making even not a great impression for those on those people either. Now I’m trying to find the needle in a haystack by looking for these things. On the other hand, if I’m ABG, right? Cause that’s the ABC mindset. If I’m ABG, the first person I talked to is a graphic designer. I started thinking, okay, do I know anybody who needs graphic design? Hey, why don’t you send me your portfolio, I’ll keep it in my inbox just in case I ever need anyone who needs graphic design, and then sure, within the next like 90 days, I might find somebody who needs a good graphic designer. And I say, hey, look, I’ve never worked with this woman. She’s perfectly nice. I met her at a party. Here’s her portfolio, it’s full of good work, I know she’s looking for clients. You want me to introduce you. Now I’ve helped this person I met at a party, I’ve helped this person to reach out to me for graphic design or that I just heard about needing graphic design or that I saw their website and it sucked and they need graphic design and I’m offering it to them, right. So I’m helping everybody, but it didn’t cost me anything. And that interaction was not a waste. So I’m really looking at the, every interaction from the ABG mindset and realizing. Most opportunities are over the horizon, right? I don’t know who I’m going to be able to help. And I don’t know who’s going to be able to help me. So I have to treat every new person that I meet as a potential opportunity. And if you don’t do that and you blow everyone off until you need them, you make a bad impression and your list of contacts is really tiny because what happens in a week when I go, oh man, my website’s down and this thing is ugly and you’re right I should redesign it, I need a graphic designer and I go crap! I don’t even remember who that woman was. I never even got her contact information. Maybe I can ask someone else at the party. Crap. Nobody knows who she is. Oh, well, back to the drawing board. Now I go to the next party and all I’m meeting our personal injury attorneys. Right? So it’s like, I can’t really, you can’t win unless you have that broad diverse network and you keep that network up by reaching out to people through drills and exercises and by introducing them to one another. And one of my favorite drills is called connect for every morning. I grab my phone, I go to the bottom of my text messages all the way down that’s where those dead threads are, where it’s like,hey, we had lunch in 2017 at Cafe Gratitude in San Diego after some financial conference, we were speaking at and I never really kept in touch with you- how are you? Those are the kinds of people that are weak and dormant ties in your network. I like to re-engage four of those people each time, that’s why I call the drill connect four cause it’s easy to remember and you do four a day. And I take weekends off because a lot of people don’t, they’re not with their family. They’re not going to respond in time. And let’s say I get a 50% response rate. That’s 10 new people per week that I’ve re-engaged that may have I’ve may have never heard from them ever again in my life. And yeah, now those people and I are in an informal conversation might only last two or three text messages. It doesn’t matter. And usually then I add those people into my CRM and I say, hey, every six months, remind me to reach out to this person and see how they’re doing. That’s it. And now I’m top of mind for them and they’re in my CRM or my Rolodex. And now in my CRM system, I use connection fox.com. I can save their information. Like, I might put your information in there and say like personal injury attorney and then your geographic area, and then like net at such and such conference. So then when I’m looking to either go to a city or someone reaches out to me from a city, or they’re moving to that city, I go, okay, who do I know in Biloxi? Oh, I know these three people – one’s an attorney and the other one’s that accountant. Hey, I know three people out there. They’re pretty nice. You want me to introduce you? You’re moving out there or you’re looking for a job out there now I have this sort of ready-made go-to network that I can use to introduce to people. And I’ve re-engaged these weakened dormant ties. It doesn’t take a lot of time. This is time I’d be wasting on Instagram. Now I put them in Connection Fox, I can search for them and I’m basically staying in touch with them once or twice a year via email or text because they pop up in my CRM. So I’m top of mind, they’re top of mind, we’re back in touch and you see all these cool opportunities shake out of that. You know, I can’t. Even, I think not a week goes by really where somebody will call me and say, Hey, do you do keynote speaking? Or do you do this kind of consulting? Or do you do this kind of event or anything like that? Do you do any of this? And I’ll say, yeah, you know, how did you think of me? Well, you know, we texted a couple of months back and then I thought like, who do I know that does podcasting. And so, yeah, we’re good. I’m going into a sales meeting now and I’m going to have to throw a couple of names in a hat for our keynote and you’re top of mine. And I just think, huh, am I about to get a $15,000 keynote speech from my doing in my freaking underwear and a zoom call because I texted this person three months ago and now I’m top of mind? And that kind of thing happens a lot. And how many of those do you need to happen in a year for it to be worth it, to spend four minutes a day texting people that you’ve lost track of over the years, right? Once maybe once every other year for that to be ROI positive. And, and so I highly recommend that drill to everyone.

Chris Dreyer

So we’ve talked a lot about your career and we’ve gotten to know a little bit about the man behind the podcast, and I kind of wanted to shift to personal a little bit. You seem to constantly be an evolution and, so, what’s next for Jordan Harbinger?

Jordan Harbinger

Yeah, I’m scaling the Jordan Harbinger Show. Um, I’ve got a great variety of guests like this coming week. We had Billy McFarland, who is the Fyre Fest guy who did the interview live from prison. He got thrown in solitary confinement for doing the podcast with me via the phone. So yeah got all kinds of international press. It’s the only media he’s done since going to prison. So that was kind of a cool world exclusive for me to get. Next week, I’ve got a mafia enforcer a couple of weeks after that, I’ve got a jewel thief, I’ve got a lot of scientists coming on, you know, I’ve got Seth Godin coming on again. I’ve got Steve Schwarzman, who’s one of the wealthiest men in the world from Blackstone, the founder of Blackstone coming on, just got a lot of really interesting folks. I like to have that diversity of thought. Something that the audience can use really in every episode. And I’m scaling, I’m trying to grow the show and grow it and grow it and grow it one because we’re stuck inside with COVID and there’s not a whole hell of a lot else going on. Right. I’ve got a one-year-old who’s walking around, but he can’t even go outside the house for more than a few minutes before wanting to go home and being hungry and wanting to go to bed, which is great. And so, you know, it’s a great time to sort of like watch my kid grow up and scale the business so that when he is six, seven, eight, nine, 10, I can take a month off every quarter and do stuff with them and travel and go out and hang out or retire early or something like that. Like now’s the time for me to really grow things wide and get a huge footprint. Like, my dad worked really hard, not to get too personal, but my dad worked really hard for Ford motor company and my mom worked really hard, she was a public school teacher, so like they were gone a lot. I was a latchkey kid. I don’t fault them for that. They were awesome parents, but my goal is to not be a dad who comes home at seven o’clock an hour before I have to go to bed or eight o’clock an hour before I go to bed and is cranky because he’s been at work for 12 hours or 14 hours in order to make enough money to send me to college. Like, I don’t want to do that to my kid. So I want to scale, get some financial security, be able to retire, then be doing the show because I love it, which I do. And then the second I don’t, just be like I’m done, if that ever happens, or just be able to work half as much and make twice as much, you know, that’s, that’s where I’m at.

Chris Dreyer

Yeah, and that’s incredible. And I think that you’re creating a, almost an, a legacy, all your content, people that you’ve talked to. I just imagine your kid, when he grows up that he’s going to get to hear his dad and all these fantastic entertaining, interesting individuals that you’ve talked to and the stories that you’ll have to share with them. So, Jordan, we’d like to close up with a new segment called three for three. It’s just a quickfire round. So go from your gut. And the first one, it’s a marketing question. So what is your top search engine optimization tip?

Jordan Harbinger

Ooh, SEO. So I know a lot about Google because I have a lot of friends that work there and they’re constantly trying to figure out how to bring high-value content to people that use Google. So trying to figure out how to like stuff keywords at the bottom of your website, like people used to do in the nineties, they’re onto you, right? And every time you try and game the system like that, bear in mind that some of those brilliant people in the entire world are all here in Silicon Valley, trying to figure out how to not make that work anymore and find some other way. We’re putting out great content and high-value stuff bubbles to the top. So the trick for me is put out a lot of really good high-value content that people really like and that I don’t have to be like, ooh, my meta-tags aren’t right, because Google is moving towards, hey, let’s just figure out what great content looks like with AI and machine learning and away from, oh, you forgot brackets on that thing, okay, well we’re now we’re not going to index your stuff. Right. And it’s going to break and we’re going to put this other guy before you who has a robot, you know, customizing all the metadata on his pages.

Chris Dreyer

I 100% agree. It’s Google’s job to eliminate crap and to serve the best consumer experience. Uh, so next one up which entrepreneur, and you’ve interviewed a lot of them. Which entrepreneur do you admire the most?

Jordan Harbinger

Ooh, that’s tricky. It’s going to be somebody like Malala Yousafzai or somebody like that. Who, if you don’t know who she is, she was attacked by the Taliban, got shot in the face. Now she has a non-profit for education and women and things like that and I think that’s really brave because one, people literally tried to kill her, they still want to kill her. She’s a symbol of essentially oppressed women standing up to the cruelest of human beings, uh, around the world and paid a huge price for it, won a Nobel prize and then like went to college a few years later cause she’s like 18, you know? I mean, that’s an amazing person. I don’t even know if you can consider him an entrepreneur, but I feel like it counts.

Chris Dreyer

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And final question here. So what is the next thing on your bucket list?

Jordan Harbinger

I need a freaking vacation, man. I want to go to the Italian coast and drink strong coffee and eat pasta and gained nine pounds sitting on a balcony, eating fettuccine alfredo with prawns in it or something. I’m a simple man. You know, I just need to get out of the house for like, two days, you know, like anywhere.

Chris Dreyer

That was the man, the myth, the legend Jordan Harbinger. That conversation was just packed with actionable advice and what really sticks out to me was the importance of really nurturing your relationships without expecting anything in return. It’s not rocket science, it’s not a marketing hack. It’s just good old fashioned, courtesy and generosity to opening doors. You’ve been listening to The Rankings Podcast. I’m Chris dryer, a big thanks to Jordan Harbinger for joining us today, you can find more information and links in the show notes. And we want to hear from you! How are you rising to the challenge of networking during the pandemic? Drop us a review and let us know. Thanks for listening. We’ll see you next time.

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